sakura
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Post by sakura on Jan 5, 2021 11:26:54 GMT -6
I have no issue with the skill level nursing students have to draw up and administer an IM injection. But I do have some concerns about the ability of nursing students to monitor people for S/S of reaction or anaphylaxis post vaccine administration. If nursing students were doing this as clinicals they would have a more trained person there to monitor them. It would be a way for 1 pharmacist to vaccinate twice the patients if the pharmacist isnt giving all the shots. But monitoring and overseeing. Aside from the fact that most of the time after vaccine monitiring is go sit in that chair over there and tell us if you feel funny. I think you’re missing the point. Yes, nursing students are capable of administering IM injections, with oversight. But if someone does have a true reaction or medical issue precipitated by vaccination, one or two experienced individuals with a bunch or nursing students is not an ideal situation.
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Jan 5, 2021 11:32:04 GMT -6
If nursing students were doing this as clinicals they would have a more trained person there to monitor them. It would be a way for 1 pharmacist to vaccinate twice the patients if the pharmacist isnt giving all the shots. But monitoring and overseeing. Aside from the fact that most of the time after vaccine monitiring is go sit in that chair over there and tell us if you feel funny. I think you’re missing the point. Yes, nursing students are capable of administering IM injections, with oversight. But if someone does have a true reaction or medical issue precipitated by vaccination, one or two experienced individuals with a bunch or nursing students is not an ideal situation. Seems more hands and eyes on the patient would be better. We are talking expanding vaccine locations to the point that they are stretching existing personel thin. They will need more help at least here we do not have enough trained people to vaccinate the numbers we have to vaccinate. Better someone with cpr, first aid, beginning training on monitoring patients, etc, than if they hired me to do it with minutes of giving shots training.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 11:35:34 GMT -6
But why? This makes no sense to me. They have to learn somehow, IM injections are one of the first and easiest skills learned. They have more training in IM injection administration than the pharmacists and pharmacy techs who are currently administering the vaccine. Again, regional. I have no problem with them learning IM injections or even vaccines....but not for something this important. Also approaching from a purely logistical standpoint, this wouldn’t be a timesaver as it would require licensed nurses overseeing and co-signing every aspect of this. Actually that may be a stroke of brilliance - one RN can oversee up to 8 students here. 9 people is way faster than 1, and 8 of them would be free labor.
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AmyG
Ruby
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Post by AmyG on Jan 5, 2021 11:48:27 GMT -6
Again, regional. I have no problem with them learning IM injections or even vaccines....but not for something this important. Also approaching from a purely logistical standpoint, this wouldn’t be a timesaver as it would require licensed nurses overseeing and co-signing every aspect of this. Actually that may be a stroke of brilliance - one RN can oversee up to 8 students here. 9 people is way faster than 1, and 8 of them would be free labor. I dont think its 1 to 8 here, but even if its 1 to 1, thats twice the vaccines given and 2 hands if someone has an allergic response.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 11:48:56 GMT -6
I think you’re missing the point. Yes, nursing students are capable of administering IM injections, with oversight. But if someone does have a true reaction or medical issue precipitated by vaccination, one or two experienced individuals with a bunch or nursing students is not an ideal situation. Seems more hands and eyes on the patient would be better. We are talking expanding vaccine locations to the point that they are stretching existing personel thin. They will need more help at least here we do not have enough trained people to vaccinate the numbers we have to vaccinate. Better someone with cpr, first aid, beginning training on monitoring patients, etc, than if they hired me to do it with minutes of giving shots training. Plus people currently administering them (pharm techs/interns and CMAs) are not trained in those things. That's where my mind keeps getting stuck. But sounds like that may be regional. I can't say I've ever asked the qualifications of the person administering my vaccine, TBH.
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AmyG
Ruby
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Post by AmyG on Jan 5, 2021 11:50:32 GMT -6
Seems more hands and eyes on the patient would be better. We are talking expanding vaccine locations to the point that they are stretching existing personel thin. They will need more help at least here we do not have enough trained people to vaccinate the numbers we have to vaccinate. Better someone with cpr, first aid, beginning training on monitoring patients, etc, than if they hired me to do it with minutes of giving shots training. Plus people currently administering them (pharm techs/interns and CMAs) are not trained in those things. That's where my mind keeps getting stuck. But sounds like that may be regional. I can't say I've ever asked the qualifications of the person administering my vaccine, TBH. Yes they are relying on the overseeing pharmacist or more trained person in the area, or that its only 5 minutes here for average paramedic response.
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mb3
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Post by mb3 on Jan 5, 2021 11:50:49 GMT -6
Seems more hands and eyes on the patient would be better. We are talking expanding vaccine locations to the point that they are stretching existing personel thin. They will need more help at least here we do not have enough trained people to vaccinate the numbers we have to vaccinate. Better someone with cpr, first aid, beginning training on monitoring patients, etc, than if they hired me to do it with minutes of giving shots training. Plus people currently administering them (pharm techs/interns and CMAs) are not trained in those things. That's where my mind keeps getting stuck. But sounds like that may be regional. I can't say I've ever asked the qualifications of the person administering my vaccine, TBH. And at least here, CMAs give vaccines all the time in our clinics. In non covid times.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 11:59:02 GMT -6
Plus people currently administering them (pharm techs/interns and CMAs) are not trained in those things. That's where my mind keeps getting stuck. But sounds like that may be regional. I can't say I've ever asked the qualifications of the person administering my vaccine, TBH. And at least here, CMAs give vaccines all the time in our clinics. In non covid times. Oh yes, here too. But CPR/first aid training is not required of them. So they would not be as helpful in the event of an adverse effect.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 5, 2021 12:10:42 GMT -6
I missed my vaccine appointment on Saturday (I know... dumb, and unlike me, but pregnancy brain, I guess), and now there are no appointments available when I try to schedule (they did send me a scheduling ticket). I will keep trying, but I am a little worried about that. For us they are opening new rounds of clinics every few weeks as they get more shipments. You can’t reschedule in the your original round without major hoops but you can for future. Maybe ask if they know when new sessions will open? I was able to reschedule last night!
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 5, 2021 12:12:44 GMT -6
I would be totally fine with nursing students giving vaccines. They have to learn sometime. When I was a student, we had to ask people if we could draw their blood. Most said yes, although a few refused. Understandable, of course.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 5, 2021 12:14:04 GMT -6
But why? This makes no sense to me. They have to learn somehow, IM injections are one of the first and easiest skills learned. They have more training in IM injection administration than the pharmacists and pharmacy techs who are currently administering the vaccine. And the number of times the new nursing students are taught to check the orders, the patients identification, the name of the med, etc and then go back and do that 3 times. They wouldnt have given the antibodies instead of the vaccine to 42 people. Everyone should be checking this anyway, no matter what their job is supposed to be.
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AmyG
Ruby
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Post by AmyG on Jan 5, 2021 12:24:05 GMT -6
On a serious note, we’re on pace to throw vaccines in the actual factual trash in this country, so I’m not gonna be choosy about who’s sticking me. Give me the syringe, I’ll do it myself. we are sooo behind on giving vaccines in az. The governor left it up to the counties. then end of dec says oh, well counties are doing it hit or miss, so the state is going to take over, except it was to basically say oh this is what the county needs to do, put how to sign up for the vaccine easy to find on your county health website and the state can take them away from your county and give it to a diff county.
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AmyG
Ruby
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Post by AmyG on Jan 5, 2021 12:25:39 GMT -6
And the number of times the new nursing students are taught to check the orders, the patients identification, the name of the med, etc and then go back and do that 3 times. They wouldnt have given the antibodies instead of the vaccine to 42 people. Everyone should be checking this anyway, no matter what their job is supposed to be. of course, but we have more trained people making mistakes. most places are using the more trained pharmacists, when that's not what they actually are trained to do, give vaccines and monitor and react with first aid for allergic reactions is not their primary training area.
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Post by Rusty Red on Jan 5, 2021 12:41:11 GMT -6
My mom is eligible to get the vaccine in phase 1 here and she asked me today if I want her to get it. I don't even know how to answer that. I would like her to get it, but I don't feel comfortable making that decision for anyone else (except DS, obviously).
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Post by Rusty Red on Jan 5, 2021 12:42:38 GMT -6
My mom is eligible to get the vaccine in phase 1 here and she asked me today if I want her to get it. I don't even know how to answer that. I would like her to get it, but I don't feel comfortable making that decision for anyone else (except DS, obviously). Why wouldn't she get it? Great question. She seems to be afraid of it.
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addymac
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Post by addymac on Jan 5, 2021 12:44:43 GMT -6
But why? This makes no sense to me. They have to learn somehow, IM injections are one of the first and easiest skills learned. They have more training in IM injection administration than the pharmacists and pharmacy techs who are currently administering the vaccine. I have no issue with the skill level nursing students have to draw up and administer an IM injection. But I do have some concerns about the ability of nursing students to monitor people for S/S of reaction or anaphylaxis post vaccine administration. We don’t have nursing students monitoring us. For my hospital there’s an area to sit in after getting the vaccine to wait 15min and there are more than just nursing or pharm students in the area and an emergency aid station set up. There are licensed practitioners there. they’re not going to hand STUDENTS *ANY* medication and not monitor them. They simply have them at the shot station with the needle ready to go. The students are not doing everything themselves. My gosh people.
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Post by Wtfshouldmynamebe on Jan 5, 2021 12:49:35 GMT -6
Hell, I know how to give an IM shot - on an animal, but still
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Post by Wtfshouldmynamebe on Jan 5, 2021 12:53:26 GMT -6
Hell, I know how to give an IM shot - on an animal, but still You can come shoot me up with the vaccine anytime! Let me go rob the walgreens first.
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Post by Rusty Red on Jan 5, 2021 12:59:05 GMT -6
Great question. She seems to be afraid of it. This is probably not the right answer, but if my mom asked me I'd say "fuck yes should get it," and she doesn't even live with me. I have tried to persuade her to really read about it, that it should allay some of her fears, but my mom is....something.
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Jan 5, 2021 13:00:02 GMT -6
One time my H had two doctors trying to put an IV in him. It was not good. Later a nurse was like WTF did they do to you?
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AmyG
Ruby
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Post by AmyG on Jan 5, 2021 13:01:18 GMT -6
This is probably not the right answer, but if my mom asked me I'd say "fuck yes should get it," and she doesn't even live with me. I have tried to persuade her to really read about it, that it should allay some of her fears, but my mom is....something. just tell her from what you've read it seems a good idea. and to ask her dr if she's concerned about something specific like allergies. I would not send her off to read the internet on this subject, cause it's too easy to find wtf kind of stuff out there.
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addymac
Emerald
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Post by addymac on Jan 5, 2021 13:06:25 GMT -6
One time my H had two doctors trying to put an IV in him. It was not good. Later a nurse was like WTF did they do to you? I always get secret enjoyment when drs are bad at that stuff. Everyone has their own skills. Our neo docs can intubate and put in central lines with their eyes closed. They will blow a vein if they try a PIV. Or be very John Travolta if I ask them to turn a pump off 🤣. Stay in your lane, medical providers and everyone will be happy.
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addymac
Emerald
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Post by addymac on Jan 5, 2021 13:07:46 GMT -6
I told my parents if they don’t get the vaccine we won’t be able to see them so unless their own dr says no, they’re getting it, per my orders. Of course they’re in Florida so who the fuck knows when they could get it. I wish they had moved here like we had planned pre pandemic and they’d be in a sooner group. Sigh.
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piratecat
Diamond
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Post by piratecat on Jan 5, 2021 13:12:30 GMT -6
One time my H had two doctors trying to put an IV in him. It was not good. Later a nurse was like WTF did they do to you? I always get secret enjoyment when drs are bad at that stuff. Everyone has their own skills. Our neo docs can intubate and put in central lines with their eyes closed. They will blow a vein if they try a PIV. Or be very John Travolta if I ask them to turn a pump off 🤣. Stay in your lane, medical providers and everyone will be happy. They were anesthesiologists and I was like... should you be doing that? Shouldn’t we just wait for a nurse? Oh they were struggling. 😂
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cmb
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Post by cmb on Jan 5, 2021 13:24:37 GMT -6
Hell, I know how to give an IM shot - on an animal, but still Dude, I had to do it for weeks after the birth of each of my kids. Give me the needle, i’ll do it myself 😂
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Post by Rusty Red on Jan 5, 2021 13:25:53 GMT -6
I learned how to give myself allergy shots years ago, so I could probably do it.
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Post by coffeecake on Jan 5, 2021 13:29:39 GMT -6
My mom is eligible to get the vaccine in phase 1 here and she asked me today if I want her to get it. I don't even know how to answer that. I would like her to get it, but I don't feel comfortable making that decision for anyone else (except DS, obviously). She gets to decide ultimately what to do, but I would 100% encourage her to get it if I were you. The more people protected the better. My H is getting his soon and he wishes our parents could get it first, but it is what it is.
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Post by CurlieWhirlie on Jan 5, 2021 13:32:47 GMT -6
Great question. She seems to be afraid of it. My mom also seems to be afraid of it, and has brought up tentative questions to me about whether I would get it if I could. She is very educated and definitely not a conspiracy theorist, but is apparently not immune to the "this vaccine was rushed so therefore it's not really tested" stories. We have been keeping the kids away from my parents for their safety because the kids are back in school part-time, so my argument that she should get the vaccine is so she can hug her grandkids. That has seemed to do the trick, but we won't know for sure until it's go time. Our area hasn't started vaccinating older people yet, they're still doing front-line healthcare and eldercare workers.
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thatgolfb
Unicorn
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Post by thatgolfb on Jan 5, 2021 14:06:15 GMT -6
My mom is eligible to get the vaccine in phase 1 here and she asked me today if I want her to get it. I don't even know how to answer that. I would like her to get it, but I don't feel comfortable making that decision for anyone else (except DS, obviously). I would tell her yes. She can make up her own mind. But like... if someone asked me if they should get the vaccine I would straight up say yes, absolutely.
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Post by fancynewbeesly on Jan 5, 2021 14:11:02 GMT -6
One time my H had two doctors trying to put an IV in him. It was not good. Later a nurse was like WTF did they do to you? I always get secret enjoyment when drs are bad at that stuff. Everyone has their own skills. Our neo docs can intubate and put in central lines with their eyes closed. They will blow a vein if they try a PIV. Or be very John Travolta if I ask them to turn a pump off 🤣. Stay in your lane, medical providers and everyone will be happy. So once we were in the local ER. DD1 needed her port accessed. They do not do a good job on kids. Like they can’t do kids since they see a few. One night DD was pissed off and feisty and wanted nothing of getting her port accessed. A nurse came in. Talked up how good he was to elevate her fears. Like pretty much read a 7 year his credentials. He went to access her and he couldn’t do it. DD snapped at him and went “I thought you said you were good!” 😂🤣 Maybe you shouldn’t talk yourself up so much. 😂
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