Help me with my angry child and my marriage

[wedding]

PDQ


C had a couple of incidents last week at camp. One was kicking sand on someone's lunch and using his hands with someone (I assume hitting or pushing). This was on Wednesday last week. We took away his phone and iPad and also talked to him about his behavior. Thursday was good but then Friday I was told he threw a ball at someone's face. In talking to him he said they were playing Monkey in the Middle and it was a girl he has been friends with for a while so i want to believe him that he just threw the ball too low when she was in the middle, but who knows.

At pick up yesterday the owner of the camp pulled C and I aside because C apparently kicked and punched a younger kid. The kid was crying about it at pickup and the mom was upset, rightly so. The owner tried to get C to tell us what's going on because he has been going for years(preschool, aftercare, and summer camp) and hasn't had issues with fighting and hands until the past two weeks when camp started. He didn't say anything. She was very nice and told him she wants him to be happy there and to talk to them about any problems vs fighting them on his own.
For those keeping track we are at 3 incidents in one week. 


We had an officer response safety training yesterday and a lot of it was about deescalating. So instead of taking something away I tried to approach calmly to get him to talk to me knowing he would shut down and get riled up if I gave negative consequences. I wanted him to feel safe to open up to me since I feel there has to be something bigger going on to suddenly have these problems. It took forever for him to talk to me about it but he finally did. He said the other kid hit him first, which doesn't excuse anything but of course I reiterated that if someone hits, you don't hit back and tell a teacher. He also told me about another kid that has been saying "bad words to him" like "shut up" and "you're stupid". I told him that I would speak to the teacher about it but his responsibility is to ignore, remove yourself from the situation, and report it. The thing that really got to me was him saying that he felt he couldn't control his anger. Then he pointed at a picture of him from preK and said "I want to be that kid again, but I can't. I'm always angry".
That broke my heart but I also know he easily could have seen something like that in a show or movie and is using it to gain sympathy. It's really hard to tell what is true and what is made up with him since he can be so convincing but I have caught him manipulating my emotions before so I can't put it past him. 


Pete gets home from work right before bedtime. After I tell him what happened and how I handled it he rolls his eyes at me and he basically says he thought we were on the right track last week with taking away his phone and iPad and I should have done that. That made me feel like crap and I told him that this is really hard right now because I speak to two people in person a day, C and him, and one is a crab ass (C) and the other seems to have no interest in talking to me. I mentioned before that he was snippy with me a couple of weeks ago. He still has been a bit but it has moved to just clearly not paying attention when I speak. Like I have said out loud "ok, no one is listening so i will stop talking" and he says nothing because he wasn't listening. Back to last night, when I expressed how hard that he made me feel like crap and he doesn't seem to want to talk to me he didn't even apologize and responded with "we are all miserable right now". I asked him if he has any other ideas about C and his uncontrollable anger and he suggests we talk to his pediatrician if this continues and pursue therapy. Guys- DH worked for years as a therapist for children, specifically with emotion regulation problems. He worked at Boston Children's and helped create new therapies and even had a successful private practice on the side. After I took a breath so I wasn't a total bitch I asked him what he would do if we were his clients. He said he would suggest behavioral interventions (but gave no ideas as to what those would be) and then an evaluation for medication if that didn't work. So not very helpful.



I don't want to disregard C's issues and I do (begrudgingly) agree that I should have been consistent with consequences. Since this is new behavior since quarantine started (he was an ass at home a lot too- more being hateful in his language to me), I do not think medication is warranted but I am open to therapy if it continues.



What do you guys think? Do I jump to therapy now? Continue with actual consequences and see if it works for another week or so? Any other thoughts?



Also, I am so done with DH right now. I know I love him and for the first few months we were doing so well under quarantine(except in the bedroom- we have only had sex twice this year ) but right now I don't like him very much. All I get from him is a higher grocery bill and having to share the tv. I probably need marriage guidance as well but I think the answer is therapy, which isn't very possible right now. 

[tgrimes]

First, I'm sorry you have all this on your plate right now. Secondly, if you noticed a difference in C's behavior after taking away the electronics, I'd try that again and see what happens. Now that he's told you about kids being mean to him and saying bad words, try to get him to talk more about his day when you pick him up. Make sure he's following through on reporting behavior instead of taking it into his own hands.

If you don't seen an improvement with the consequences you put forward and the follow ups on his day to day interactions, then I'd seek therapy.

[mwhip]

wedding I don't know...this is a difficult situation all around.

As for C. I like the approach you took. Getting him to open up and talk to you, know he can trust you, is so important. But I am a believer that actions have consequences, so if something like that happened here, things would have been taken away after the talk. But I would let him know that if the behavior improves and communication stays open, that he will get whatever was taken away, back. His ability to tell you that he can't control his anger would make me contact a therapist to discuss, as long as insurance pays for it. Especially since your H has a history with it as well. I think

As for P. Can I ask why you've only had sex twice this year? My marriage requires that intimate connection, if we go more than a week without it, we start to feel disconnected (or at least I do). I would assume by his reaction, that he feels like you would shut down his recommendations, which is why he didn't bring them up. I would definitely recommend a marriage counselor for the 2 of you, if he's open to it.

It's very easy to love someone, but not like them. It's part of marriage. This shit is hard. Add a kid to it. Add staying home due to a pandemic. And we are all in times that will test the strongest of marriages.

I'm not helpful, but I do hope you find the answers that work best for your family.

[tgrimes]

In regards to Pete, I agree with him that we're all miserable right now. However, that doesn't mean you just let it go and don't address it. That's not healthy. I know CTJ conversations are never fun, but you may need to sit down and find out why the two of you are unhappy. Have you ever asked him why sexy time doesn't happen very often anymore? When you try to initiate it does he turn you down? I know he has a stressful job, so does he need to come home and vent about it to get it out of his system in order to enjoy his time at home?

From my experience, you have to go approach these conversations as a "what can I do to make things better" rather than a "you're pissing me off and here's why." lol. Maybe if he sees you making the attempt at change he'll make more of an effort to listen to you and your needs.

[mwhip]

I should have also added that what works in my home, definitely won't work for every home, me and my H are very unorthodox in our approaches and relationship. You just have to find what works for you all and makes the most sense.

[wedding]

tgrimes, after the consequence the first time he was good the next day. Then he had the ball incident which may or may not have been an accident. He was good Monday. So basically it gave us 2-3 days of better behavior at camp.

mwhip our sex life has been an issue since before we were married. I had a medical issue that lasted about 6mos where it hurt at one point and he got sick of being turned down and basically stopped initiating. That was maybe 3 years into our 19 year relationship and he still doesn't initiate. He has trouble being affectionate and we basically don't touch each other aside from the occasional spoon. I need affection and he knows that. We will talk and things will get better for a bit but eventually the affection falls off and so does my interest in sex and initiating. We have a lot of intimacy issues that we delved into in counseling before but haven't resolved. I'm sick of being the one to initiate, any by that i mean saying "you want to have sex tonight" and have given up. This year has been the worst though. I've had a lot going on mental health wise with depression and anxiety so with it being my job to initiate, I just haven't had the energy. I'm also struggling with attraction since he put on weight and my own body issues and the fact that he never ever compliments how I look definitely doesn't help.

[tgrimes]

Have you ever read flamingo's favorite The Well Behaved Child by John Rosemond? If not, I definitely recoommend it for consequences. If that doesn't nip his behavior in the bud, then I'd look into counseling.

[wedding]

Jul 1, 2020 10:29:35 GMT -6 tgrimes said:

Have you ever read flamingo's favorite The Well Behaved Child by John Rosemond? If not, I definitely recoommend it for consequences. If that doesn't nip his behavior in the bud, then I'd look into counseling.

Nope but I’ll check it out.

[tgrimes]

So I'm not the best one to offer advice on intimacy issues but, what if instead of asking him if wants to do it you just take charge one night?

[wedding]

Jul 1, 2020 10:34:23 GMT -6 tgrimes said:

So I'm not the best one to offer advice on intimacy issues but, what if instead of asking him if wants to do it you just take charge one night?

I’ve done that too. But it takes a lot of effort on my part and I don’t have a lot to give right now.

[wedding]

I just made another thread with where my energy has been.

[flamingo]

I'm sorry you guys are dealing with all this. 

Enforcing consequences consistently is hard and no one wants to be the bad guy, but I think your H is right about that. My H is much better than me at sticking to rules or consequences we set and I have to remind myself that this is for their benefit whenever I think about caving. Regarding the punching, etc., it's a reality that at some point my kid will be stronger than me, and even at 6-7 y.o. they can do some damage to a sibling or peer. So in our house anything physical is absolutely off limits and you will get the heaviest of consequences for that. Losing phone and iPad would be 'light' punishment for us.

I've shilled for John Rosemond but have you read anything about parenting/raising boys specifically? Two that I really like are Meg Meeker's Strong Mothers, Strong Sons, and Boys Should be Boys. She is a pediatrician and I love her approach. She has a FB page if you want to check her out. Another good one is Wild Things: The Art of Nurturing Boys. It's written by 2 fathers who are also family therapists, I believe.

I realize that the discipline/camp issues are immediately pressing b/c I assume continued poor behavior could lose him his place there, but your marriage is just as important if not moreso, and I can definitely see the potential for these issues being intertwined. I kind of wonder if C's acting out is a result of subconsciously picking up on tension at home. Just a thought. I feel like a lot of bad behavior with kids is often attention-seeking.  but marriage tends to dictate the flow of everything else--in our household, anyway--so I would personally be working on both simultaneously, whether that means couples therapy for me and DH, or whatever else you may deem helpful.

[klong11]

I think that it's great that you talked to C about his behavior. Yes, he probably needs consequences, but making sure he knows he can talk to you about his feelings is important. I think we forget that the kids are going through a lot right now and they don't understand what's going on.
If his behavior continues, continue talking to him about it, but at the end of the conversation remind him that if we hit then xyz gets taken away for a certain period of time, or if we say mean things abc gets taken away and follow through with that. I think immediately taking something away just tells him you don't care how he feels, so the behavior will continue.

[nam2013]

I had a very busy day, so my brain is fried, so I’m sorry I can’t seem to put together a more eloquent response.

I like the approach you took. Taking to him in stead of ‘just’ giving a consequence. It gives kids a change to tell their side of the story and feel heard. It also teaches them that even if they did something wrong, you’re them for them, you’ll love them no matter what. I also play out play out little scenarios on what would be better responses and how the way they acted at that point would make the other kid feel. Keep talking to him, even if nothing was reported that day. I often do ‘what was the worst/best your day today?’ And than talk about how things made them feel. Kids this age really still need us to help regulate and voice their feeling and learn how to deal with feeling sad/angry/frustrated.

Also maybe counter intuitive, but if Ds gets mad/frustrated more often then normal, for us that is a sign we need to do something one-on-one, play catch at the park around the corner, walk to the ice parlour, nothing big or something, and just chat for a bit, not per se focussed on what happened.

I’m with flamingo in that I believe that kids, as much as you try to keep them away from it, often pick up tensions in the household and that kids will ‘act out’ to get attention.

As for the marriage stuff, I’m so so sorry you’re going to a tough fase. I think I would try on working on that before heading into therapy for C’s behaviour. Also I’m sorry that your H is acknowledging the hard work you put into your body, for what it’s worth, you look amazing!!!

[trtlcrzy]

Sorry you have to deal with all of this. I think going to counseling would be good for C. He is so high energy that maybe he needs more physical activity to work off some of his anger.

Also, sorry about the marriage issues. I am right there with you on needing to work on things.

[guster]

That is a lot. I’m sorry things are tough right now. Do P and C do anything alone together? I wonder if they had time to connect, P could steer the conversations toward C’s behaviors?

[wedding]

Jul 1, 2020 12:56:07 GMT -6 guster said:

That is a lot. I’m sorry things are tough right now. Do P and C do anything alone together? I wonder if they had time to connect, P could steer the conversations toward C’s behaviors?

They do. I'll suggest that to P.

[kim22]

We deal with anger issues with DS1 that have been diagnosed as an anxiety disorder. I am not saying that is the case with C but for my DS when the behavior is related to the anxiety, punishment such as taking things away makes it worse not better. He has been working with a therapist for 3 years and DH and I just started meeting with her as well. When you talked about C getting upset about another kid saying something mean, that is the issue I have with DS. He cannot just let things go the way other kids can. When we are with my sisters, there are 10 kids. One thing can happen and everyone gets over it in a minute or two but he carries it all day.

As for P, not to excuse his reaction but I think it’s hard to see something in your own kid when you are a professional. I see with teachers all the time that when it’s our own kids, we don’t recognize the problem the same way we do with other people’s kids (or opposite, several of my special ed teaching friends are convinced their kids have all sorts of things “wrong” when they are completely fine). Is P able to pick up C from camp something so he can hear right from the staff or will that not work with his work hours?

[jewels]

I have no good advice that hasn't been offered already by the other smart ladies here but didn't want to read and not respond. Sorry you all are having a tough time right now.

I do want to comment about the comment C made about wishing he could be the kid from PreK. S has been having odd little breakdowns about missing being a baby, like to the point of tears, and I don't know why. 2 nights ago he started crying right before bed and told me he was sad b/c he had no memories of being a baby anymore. I told him it's ok b/c I do and he can ask me anything. And then we had a good talk (which ended with him asking how big my CSection scar was lol).

Also I agree with what others have said about keeping the communication open. One thing that seems to work sometimes with S is talking to him in the car. I think maybe he feels easier "opening up" when I'm not looking at him? So sometimes if I know something is bugging him, I'll take him out with me and wind up getting the info on the car ride.

[lahdeedah]

Everyone have great advice. wedding I’m sorry that this happening with C and Pete. I’m glad you got it out of him because I think it is important that he is able to tell you what is triggering his anger.

I totally get the disconnect in the marriage. It’s so much work and effort and so hard to muster up the energy and courage to face it all. Hugs.

[wedding]

kim22 what do you do at home when your DS would act out? I don’t think C gets worse with negative consequences but he does hold onto stuff and shapes his day around one bad remark. He can also hold a grudge indefinitely.

[kim22]

We are still figuring things out. My new issue is determining what is his anxiety versus what is him being an almost teen and needing consequences. I don’t have behavior issues at school because his school is kinda rough and he wouldn’t mess with the kids there but we were having issues with him getting in fights at hockey and he’s very mean to his siblings. His therapist is working on EMDR tapping with him and DH and I are working on spending more one-on-one time with him. Most times now I just need to remove him from the situation and he will apologize later. He will also request extra appointments with his therapist who he loves. Obviously just like for everyone, quarantine has made things so much worse with DH and I trying to work and keep C alive and teach T, him and DD were sorta on their own.