JukEboX
Sapphire
Posts: 2,505 Likes: 5,338 
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Post by JukEboX on Feb 26, 2020 13:05:11 GMT -6
ladybrienne speaks for me in here. Yes, I'm largely tired of old white men running the show. No, it wouldn't be the same if I said old black men, because that would be racist AF and reverse racism is not a thing. If so many people feel like they're on the fringes then that, to me, says we're not actually a total echo chamber. But let's ignore that and say SP was right. What is the solution? Never talk badly about the candidates? I'm not being snarky. If someone is silently fuming I truly don't understand what we're supposed to do about it. While I’m here for a minute: Reverse racism is not a thing. Reverse racism is not a thing. Reverse racism is not a thing. Saying I will vote for diverse candidates over white males to work towards the demographics in government coming closer to matching the demographics of our country (aka I don’t want to vote for an old white guy) is not racist and should not be offensive. It should be a priority frankly. And it’s not saying pick a less qualified candidate to increase diversity because that’s not the case. In fact there are higher quality candidates that represent different demographics than the white male candidates that are in the race today that didn’t even get a chance to run because of systematic racism and classism. What the heck is reverse racism. I know the definition of racism is "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race" per merriam. So is the reverse of that the non belief? So if two people of color believed the definition over white people that is racism? I have seen "reverse racism" before but it has me lost. Sorry for my ignorance but I am so confused. |
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 26, 2020 13:09:17 GMT -6
While I’m here for a minute: Reverse racism is not a thing. Reverse racism is not a thing. Reverse racism is not a thing. Saying I will vote for diverse candidates over white males to work towards the demographics in government coming closer to matching the demographics of our country (aka I don’t want to vote for an old white guy) is not racist and should not be offensive. It should be a priority frankly. And it’s not saying pick a less qualified candidate to increase diversity because that’s not the case. In fact there are higher quality candidates that represent different demographics than the white male candidates that are in the race today that didn’t even get a chance to run because of systematic racism and classism. What the heck is reverse racism. I know the definition of racism is "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race" per merriam. So is the reverse of that the non belief? So if two people of color believed the definition over white people that is racism? I have seen "reverse racism" before but it has me lost. Sorry for my ignorance but I am so confused. White people saying that saying something is 'white is racist' or 'affirmative action is racist towards white people' ^most simplistic answer.
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JukEboX
Sapphire
Posts: 2,505 Likes: 5,338
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Post by JukEboX on Feb 26, 2020 13:13:44 GMT -6
What the heck is reverse racism. I know the definition of racism is "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race" per merriam. So is the reverse of that the non belief? So if two people of color believed the definition over white people that is racism? I have seen "reverse racism" before but it has me lost. Sorry for my ignorance but I am so confused. White people saying that saying something is 'white is racist' or 'affirmative action is racist towards white people' ^most simplistic answer.
OHHHH I get it. The normal counter of the right saying that programs designed to bring POC to even keel to fight systemic racism is "reverse racism". Thanks! I always wondered what that was called. EDIT: Sorry got my left and rights mixed up. |
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,296 Likes: 219,949 
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Post by jaygee on Feb 26, 2020 13:17:48 GMT -6
While I’m here for a minute: Reverse racism is not a thing. Reverse racism is not a thing. Reverse racism is not a thing. Saying I will vote for diverse candidates over white males to work towards the demographics in government coming closer to matching the demographics of our country (aka I don’t want to vote for an old white guy) is not racist and should not be offensive. It should be a priority frankly. And it’s not saying pick a less qualified candidate to increase diversity because that’s not the case. In fact there are higher quality candidates that represent different demographics than the white male candidates that are in the race today that didn’t even get a chance to run because of systematic racism and classism. What the heck is reverse racism. I know the definition of racism is "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race" per merriam. So is the reverse of that the non belief? So if two people of color believed the definition over white people that is racism? I have seen "reverse racism" before but it has me lost. Sorry for my ignorance but I am so confused. This is a learning opportunity. Here are two articles I can recommend on the concept of reverse racism, how it is used, and why it is a myth. www.google.com/amp/s/www.theperspective.com/amp/debates/2457/reverse-racism-exist-america.htmlwww.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/535689/There is lots to explore on this topic online written by people of color. And it is constantly used against people of color as a silencing method when they speak out about racial injustice and systematic racism. |
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 26, 2020 13:23:09 GMT -6
Was there sparring on gun control last night?
Because thats the current chyron on cnn.
it was BARELY touched on.
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emma
Ruby
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Post by emma on Feb 26, 2020 13:45:46 GMT -6
hi am a weirdo non-American that watched the debate and am always down to talk universal healthcare. And if anyone wants to talk shit about the NHS then hold my earrings cos we fighting
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Post by cakewench on Feb 26, 2020 14:02:06 GMT -6
hi am a weirdo non-American that watched the debate and am always down to talk universal healthcare. And if anyone wants to talk shit about the NHS then hold my earrings cos we fighting I can literally hear this entire post in Emily's voice  |
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Post by blurnette989 on Feb 26, 2020 14:12:00 GMT -6
hi am a weirdo non-American that watched the debate and am always down to talk universal healthcare. And if anyone wants to talk shit about the NHS then hold my earrings cos we fighting Yesssssss. I'm a military brat who happily grew up on Tricare (govt healthcare) and then moved to a country with a blessed national health system. |
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Minerva
Ruby
Posts: 15,381 Likes: 67,036
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Post by Minerva on Feb 26, 2020 14:18:13 GMT -6
This conversation is reminding me I need to pick up some supplemental reading for S1. They are learning about the founding fathers. The stuff in his history book is better than I feared it might but still woefully inadequate. When we were at Mount Vernon the other day, I took A (7 yo) to the slave memorial and we talked about Washington’s more sordid history. How he did so many important things in the early years of our country, but he also did bad things that hurt other people too. His school is on land that belonged to the Washingtons, so they spend a lot of time talking about him and at this age it is very whitewashed. History is complicated. Historical figures aren’t saints. We can learn about their accomplishments while also acknowledging the harm they did. And there is no reason kids can’t be taught that nuance from the start. |
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Post by oreobitsy on Feb 26, 2020 17:39:29 GMT -6
My husband's high school history class used Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States" and my school used the standard textbooks of the day. I think you can guess which of us was way more informed going to college. There were huge gaps in my knowledge. There absolutely needs to be more representation of all historical figures, not just the winners.
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Post by punker1212 on Feb 26, 2020 19:04:11 GMT -6
My husband's high school history class used Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States" and my school used the standard textbooks of the day. I think you can guess which of us was way more informed going to college. There were huge gaps in my knowledge. There absolutely needs to be more representation of all historical figures, not just the winners. My little brother and I read Zinn in high school and both had I think closet liberals for our AP government teachers. For being in a rural homogenous area, I have to say we got a less whitewashed perspective. But the Zinn was fun reading; how awesome to have it assigned! |
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Likes: 94,334
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 26, 2020 19:11:37 GMT -6
My husband's high school history class used Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States" and my school used the standard textbooks of the day. I think you can guess which of us was way more informed going to college. There were huge gaps in my knowledge. There absolutely needs to be more representation of all historical figures, not just the winners. My little brother and I read Zinn in high school and both had I think closet liberals for our AP government teachers. For being in a rural homogenous area, I have to say we got a less whitewashed perspective. But the Zinn was fun reading; how awesome to have it assigned! I adored my ap govt teacher. But it was not exactly super progressive. We did a lot of compare and contrast other countries to capitalism. |
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Post by punker1212 on Feb 26, 2020 19:12:53 GMT -6
My little brother and I read Zinn in high school and both had I think closet liberals for our AP government teachers. For being in a rural homogenous area, I have to say we got a less whitewashed perspective. But the Zinn was fun reading; how awesome to have it assigned! I adored my ap govt teacher. But it was not exactly super progressive. We did a lot of compare and contrast other countries to capitalism. Oh interesting! So what view did you leave with of capitalism? Also, my teachers were really good at staying neutral... I think I kind of figured it out after the fact. |
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 26, 2020 19:34:03 GMT -6
I adored my ap govt teacher. But it was not exactly super progressive. We did a lot of compare and contrast other countries to capitalism. Oh interesting! So what view did you leave with of capitalism? Also, my teachers were really good at staying neutral... I think I kind of figured it out after the fact. I’m trying to remember but this was late 80s so details are a wee fuzzy. Lol. Her husband had survived concentration camps and she brought us doughnuts to watch the SOTU. We had to bring one current event clipping from a newspaper every week. ^ what I remember I did go back and see her days after the Berlin Wall came down. |
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 26, 2020 19:43:43 GMT -6
Ha
Some guy on with Chris Hayes just described Bloomberg’s charisma as a ‘piece of cheese that ate a robot’
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Post by punker1212 on Feb 26, 2020 20:26:06 GMT -6
Oh interesting! So what view did you leave with of capitalism? Also, my teachers were really good at staying neutral... I think I kind of figured it out after the fact. I’m trying to remember but this was late 80s so details are a wee fuzzy. Lol. Her husband had survived concentration camps and she brought us doughnuts to watch the SOTU. We had to bring one current event clipping from a newspaper every week. ^ what I remember I did go back and see her days after the Berlin Wall came down. Love this story. |
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Post by doublestuf on Feb 26, 2020 22:21:09 GMT -6
This is very timely indeed.
As I mentioned in the Black History thread, I am currently doing my non-white washed tour of American history to my 3rd graders. I am doing my best to teach them in a way that accurately portrays history. And it is hard because I definitely got the white-washed version and have had to dig and Google to make sure I have it right. And I have used a lot of what is being discussed in the other thread. I made it a point the other day to say that our country is here because we took land from the Natives using free labor from the Africans and African Americans.
Just the other day, we were talking about the suffrage movement, and I made it clear that free black women weren't invited to Senaca Falls and were purposefully excluded from the movement. Last year, I'm pretty sure I wasn't up to date on that. So yeah, definitely still learning and growing here.
But yesterday we were discussing Jim Crow laws, and they were really interested and shocked about segregation. One of them asked, "But could another president make that happen again?" (Obviously a bit of a misunderstanding there). I had so many things I wanted to say of course, but told her that no, one person would not be the one to cause things to happen like that again. That it would be groups of people who had hateful beliefs that could cause things of that nature to happen again, and that we have to always make sure we speak up if we hear someone being mean about another person's skin color or beliefs. That this is why learning about history is important because we don't want to repeat our mistakes. I wanted so badly to point out what is happening now, but of course couldn't. Obviously, many of my brown and black kids know.
Then, one of my biracial girls asked if white and black people could get married back then. When I told her no, it hit her, and she quietly said, "Oh then I wouldn't be here." 💔
I'm hoping they hold on to some of this even though they're really young.
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milano
Emerald
Posts: 10,914 Likes: 36,993
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Post by milano on Feb 26, 2020 22:54:37 GMT -6
doublestuf your students are so lucky to have you!
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Post by oreobitsy on Feb 26, 2020 23:07:18 GMT -6
doublestuf You're an amazing teacher. I agree that your students are so lucky to have you.
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roloma
Sapphire
Posts: 3,659
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Post by roloma on Feb 27, 2020 6:13:03 GMT -6
doublestuf, you are an amazing teacher. I hope my boys are lucky enough to have a teacher like you some day. ❤️❤️
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,742
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 27, 2020 6:15:25 GMT -6
doublestuf. You are a truly good human and terrific teacher❤️
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Post by doublestuf on Feb 27, 2020 9:28:13 GMT -6
You ladies are too kind ❤. I'd be lying if I said teaching didn't wear me down a lot of days. But seeing 8 and 9 year olds comprehend and wrestle with topics like this makes it so worth it. When we finish in a few days, I am going to ask them to reflect and give me some adjectives to describe our country's history. I'll report back on our convo.
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Post by cakewench on Feb 27, 2020 9:29:57 GMT -6
You ladies are too kind ❤. I'd be lying if I said teaching didn't wear me down a lot of days. But seeing 8 and 9 year olds comprehend and wrestle with topics like this makes it so worth it. When we finish in a few days, I am going to ask them to reflect and give me some adjectives to describe our country's history. I'll report back on our convo. I definitely wish I'd had more teachers like you, especially at that age. <3 |
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Post by enchanted on Feb 27, 2020 9:56:15 GMT -6
You ladies are too kind ❤. I'd be lying if I said teaching didn't wear me down a lot of days. But seeing 8 and 9 year olds comprehend and wrestle with topics like this makes it so worth it. When we finish in a few days, I am going to ask them to reflect and give me some adjectives to describe our country's history. I'll report back on our convo. Please do. ♥️ |
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