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Post by Dramaphile on Dec 23, 2019 8:48:34 GMT -6
I saw it twice, once on Thursday night and again on Saturday, and I liked it better the second time around. Did it have issues? For sure. Was it still an enjoyable movie and a good ending to the series, absolutely.
I thought some of the Leia scenes felt as cobbled together as they actually were, and unnecessary. I almost would have rather had them open the movie with a funeral for Leia or something. But, I did love Leia training Rey as a Jedi, and the embrace between them. I wish we could have seen the movie as it was written for Leia.
I wish the Chewie is alive reveal was not so quick. There was so little time to process and sit with it and minutes later, just kidding he's really ok!
For all the talk of Rey and the Dark Side, there was never any point where she even flirted with it beyond scaring herself with her own power.
I hated the kiss and found it completely unnecessary.
Kerri Russell's character was a throwaway with no depth.
I liked Kylo's redemption arc, I loved the camaraderie between Poe and Finn, Leia's death really punched me in the gut when Chewie found out about it, and there were some epic lightsaber battles. I loved the interaction with Finn and the other former stormtroopers. And Lando, of course.
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Post by sheilathetank on Dec 23, 2019 9:23:50 GMT -6
In addition to the things you mentioned, TLJ had a big theme about how the force belonged to everyone, and that the Jedi thought they cornered the market on it was vanity. And Rey being no one (and that random kid inspired by Luke at the end) were tied to that theme. But now Rey is a palpatine and a Jedi and we are sort of back to the force only belonging to the Jedi. Fanboys were also very anti hux and kylo as they weren’t traditional, intimidating villains like snoke. So now they bring in palpatine as the big bad, and replace hux with Pride, a very by the book imperial. That sort of thing. but the Force doesn't just belong to the Jedi, because Finn is clearly Force sensitive.
Some people think the jab Luke makes at himself when he catches the lightsaber she throws into the fire and makes a quip about a Jedi's weapon deserves respect, which was a reference to when he tossed his lightsaber away after she gave it back to him in TLJ (which offended a lot of fanboys, apparently). Some people see that as a jab at TLJ's characterization of Luke, but I see it as him owning up to how he behaved and by the end of TLJ, he realized throwing away the past and hiding from it was not the way. See also: The Bendu The Night Sisters The freaking Uneti Trees! and those are just some of the examples from new canon. old canon has a ton of examples where the jedi and sith weren't the only ones with force abilities. that also doesn't make sense from the standpoint that the jedi weren't allowed to procreate so all 5000+ weren't connected in any way at all. They were all random force sensitives. If fanboys really believe that force belongs to the jedi then they haven't been paying attention.
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Post by geekygirly on Dec 23, 2019 10:26:10 GMT -6
Overall I enjoyed it, but I did have some issues with it, most revolving around the emperor (although ironically I perfectly was okay with the emperor still being alive and Rey being his granddaughter):
* How was the emperor able to build a whole huge fleet of super star destroyers and gather the crew to man them without anyone noticing? * The fact they now have star destroyers as powerful as a death star kind of makes the fact that two movies ago they needed an entire planet to build starkiller base seem kind of silly now * The whole "I'm going to send Kylo to kill Rey," "But wait I didn't want Rey dead I wanted her here along," "Rey kill me," "Now I will kill you" thing was kind of clunky and awkward * The emperor seemed to be barely hanging onto life, how did he gather enough energy to force lightening an entire fleet? * Some of the force powers seemed a bit overkill, for example Rey being able to grab a ship actively trying to take off and hold if for so long while fighting with Kylo. (I would felt better about this if she had held it for a few seconds and then the strain caused her to shoot the lightening, rather than it being this drawn out scene)
I also wish they had gone the gray jedi route at the end, or MAYBE had Rey and Kylo both live, move in together, and then be the living balance of the force or something. This is coming from someone who really liked TLJ. If you watch the prequels and Clone Wars series, you see that the Jedi weren't really as great as they were made out to be. I felt like in TLJ Luke finally saw that, and that the force would never be balanced as long as the jedi order was around, because there would always be their sith counterparts. The only way to bring true balance to the force would be to allow people to use both the light and the dark. With Rey being a Palpatine and obviously having some darkness within her, I felt like this would have been perfect. And I feel like it would have made Luke a stronger character in the last movie, because despite all his whininess (which people complained about), he would turn out to be right in the end, instead of having been wrong. And it would have been the perfect conclusion to the Skywalker saga since the force would finally be balanced in Rey (or Rey/Kylo). I guess I have some stronger feels than I thought on this, lol.
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Post by sheilathetank on Dec 23, 2019 10:48:24 GMT -6
Overall I enjoyed it, but I did have some issues with it, most revolving around the emperor (although ironically I perfectly was okay with the emperor still being alive and Rey being his granddaughter): * How was the emperor able to build a whole huge fleet of super star destroyers and gather the crew to man them without anyone noticing? * The fact they now have star destroyers as powerful as a death star kind of makes the fact that two movies ago they needed an entire planet to build starkiller base seem kind of silly now * The whole "I'm going to send Kylo to kill Rey," "But wait I didn't want Rey dead I wanted her here along," "Rey kill me," "Now I will kill you" thing was kind of clunky and awkward * The emperor seemed to be barely hanging onto life, how did he gather enough energy to force lightening an entire fleet? * Some of the force powers seemed a bit overkill, for example Rey being able to grab a ship actively trying to take off and hold if for so long while fighting with Kylo. (I would felt better about this if she had held it for a few seconds and then the strain caused her to shoot the lightening, rather than it being this drawn out scene) I also wish they had gone the gray jedi route at the end, or MAYBE had Rey and Kylo both live, move in together, and then be the living balance of the force or something. This is coming from someone who really liked TLJ. If you watch the prequels and Clone Wars series, you see that the Jedi weren't really as great as they were made out to be. I felt like in TLJ Luke finally saw that, and that the force would never be balanced as long as the jedi order was around, because there would always be their sith counterparts. The only way to bring true balance to the force would be to allow people to use both the light and the dark. With Rey being a Palpatine and obviously having some darkness within her, I felt like this would have been perfect. And I feel like it would have made Luke a stronger character in the last movie, because despite all his whininess (which people complained about), he would turn out to be right in the end, instead of having been wrong. And it would have been the perfect conclusion to the Skywalker saga since the force would finally be balanced in Rey (or Rey/Kylo). I guess I have some stronger feels than I thought on this, lol. To your first point, Palpatine had contingency plans upon contingency plans. Before his death he set up an entire fleet of ships for the battle of Jakku and set plans in motion to hide out in the unknown regions if shit went down. It's where Brendol Hux went with all the kids and how the First Order started. I'm not at all surprised he had a fleet of ships waiting in the works. For points 2-4, I completely agree and its one of the main reasons it was cheesy bad. Like it made no sense. where the fuck were they getting all those Kyber crystals from? How did palpatine regenerate from not one but two explosions. Who hooked him up to the spider thing? If you were every voice that Kylo had in his head, then why target Kylo in the first place to bring him Rey? Why not call out to Rey directly? Why go through the hassle? Fucker must have only regenerated half his damn brain because the plot holes there were like swiss cheese. I felt that Rey ended as a grey Jedi. She has the yellow lightsaber. By burying the Skywalker lightsabers she effectively ends the Jedi legacy. She will always be able to manifest her dark side and not succumb to it. I thought the force lightning with the transport showed that. They didn't come out and say it directly because I think the fanboys would have rioted and burned the theater down. But I personally, saw the hints that she walks both paths. As for Ben, I absolutely wanted him to live, and in my mind he does, but the reality would be what? He goes back and says sorry? They'd put him on trial for war crimes. With Leia dead the only ones who could possibly vouch for him are Chewie and Lando and I don't know how much pull they would have. He'd either end up on a prison ship or executed. Which leads me to ask what the fuck happens to the government now? Are they on the new, new, new republic? Is Poe in charge (my god!)? With all the old senators dead from the force awakens it's going to be a total shit show. Also props to you for bringing up that the Jedi kinda sucked. Because they really did suck so, so bad.
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Post by Wtfshouldmynamebe on Dec 23, 2019 20:27:14 GMT -6
I saw it today. As a fan of just the main movies, I was satisfied. I don’t dive into the other things that are canon, so I can’t pick at it as much. I felt Ben’s redemption was good. DH didnt understand why he had to die though - I think he wanted the Han/leia like happy ending. I liked that, in the end, Rey is going to be a no one.
I do still think it will piss off the fanboys because the female is the winner. In fact, I recently cleansed my Facebook because I couldn’t stand the comments about Rey ruining the series because she is female.
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Post by cakewench on Dec 24, 2019 4:51:02 GMT -6
I saw it yesterday. Overall I enjoyed it, but completely agree with other criticisms that there was just too much going on. They could have easily trimmed some stuff.
Anyway, I want to post more thoughts but I have a house full of people... hopefully will have a quiet moment soon 😂
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beatch
Amethyst
My ass is self-sufficient
Posts: 7,144 Likes: 64,016
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Post by beatch on Dec 26, 2019 0:08:55 GMT -6
I want to see the trilogy. Overall I'm stunned Disney went into this without a cohesive roadmap. The rewriting of plot points is just...stupid and it certainly makes them look reactionary instead of thoughtful. The contraction of Rose's character sucked. She could have stood out in a number of ways or played a more pivotal role but they made a choice.
I didn't hate it but I definitely feel meh about it.
I also wanted more Babu Frick!
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beatch
Amethyst
My ass is self-sufficient
Posts: 7,144 Likes: 64,016
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Post by beatch on Dec 26, 2019 0:21:27 GMT -6
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beatch
Amethyst
My ass is self-sufficient
Posts: 7,144 Likes: 64,016
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Post by beatch on Dec 26, 2019 0:34:52 GMT -6
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beatch
Amethyst
My ass is self-sufficient
Posts: 7,144 Likes: 64,016
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Post by beatch on Dec 26, 2019 1:42:18 GMT -6
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Post by geekygirly on Dec 28, 2019 12:27:24 GMT -6
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Post by callmekd on Dec 28, 2019 22:27:35 GMT -6
Introduced our kids (6,3,3) to the Last Jedi tonight. They sat throughly the whole thing. Every time I watch it I’m reminded what a great movie it is. We are taking the 6 year old to the rise of skywalker in Tuesday.
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mischief
Emerald
Recap Aficionado
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Post by mischief on Dec 28, 2019 22:45:54 GMT -6
I shared this on the Geek board but Im still laughing about it. -Throw Back to when Poe Dameron and Kylo Ren went through a Country Western phase and made a song with Justin Timberlake about not wanting to go to space. cyborgslayer---WHAT?!?! thesassyblacknerd---Press play boyfriendpoe---this is what rey saw when she looked back into kylo’s mind poedamerontrashcaneron--this is absolutely surreal Read more: howeverithappened.proboards.com/thread/17490/meme-thread#ixzz69T5KqGuh
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willow
Ruby
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Post by willow on Dec 28, 2019 22:49:15 GMT -6
So is the general consensus that Finn kept wanting to tell Rey that he could feel her in the Force? That’s what I thought but then H theorized that he wanted to tell her that Leia told him and not Poe about being Palpatines granddaughter and that’s why he said the whole “I do know who you are” thing. I hadn’t thought of that, to me it seemed really clear that he was sensing her through the Force at times.
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iruntodrink
Sapphire
Mostly namaste. A little bit fuck you.
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Post by iruntodrink on Dec 29, 2019 9:43:09 GMT -6
So is the general consensus that Finn kept wanting to tell Rey that he could feel her in the Force? That’s what I thought but then H theorized that he wanted to tell her that Leia told him and not Poe about being Palpatines granddaughter and that’s why he said the whole “I do know who you are” thing. I hadn’t thought of that, to me it seemed really clear that he was sensing her through the Force at times. I wondered if I missed this. I asked DH if Finn ever told her what he he said he never got a chance to do. He couldn't remember.
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iruntodrink
Sapphire
Mostly namaste. A little bit fuck you.
Posts: 4,617 Likes: 22,794
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Post by iruntodrink on Dec 29, 2019 9:48:20 GMT -6
I enjoyed it. I thought it gave a good balance of closure and mystery for the future.
The only plot hole I caught was that Ben faded so quickly after dying, when Rey didn't.
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willow
Ruby
Posts: 19,980 Likes: 127,981
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Post by willow on Dec 29, 2019 10:07:47 GMT -6
So is the general consensus that Finn kept wanting to tell Rey that he could feel her in the Force? That’s what I thought but then H theorized that he wanted to tell her that Leia told him and not Poe about being Palpatines granddaughter and that’s why he said the whole “I do know who you are” thing. I hadn’t thought of that, to me it seemed really clear that he was sensing her through the Force at times. I wondered if I missed this. I asked DH if Finn ever told her what he he said he never got a chance to do. He couldn't remember. He did not.
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Post by theseaword on Dec 29, 2019 14:20:09 GMT -6
JJ said it was that Finn had the force. Cool, JJ. Usually you would put it in the movie but I guess just explaining it later works too.
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Post by Dramaphile on Dec 30, 2019 7:50:24 GMT -6
JJ said it was that Finn had the force. Cool, JJ. Usually you would put it in the movie but I guess just explaining it later works too. But he did put it in the movie, there were several points where Finn feels Rey in the force, most notably at the end when she dies. I'd have to rewatch TFA and TLJ to see if there are any other moments
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Post by theseaword on Dec 30, 2019 10:16:17 GMT -6
JJ said it was that Finn had the force. Cool, JJ. Usually you would put it in the movie but I guess just explaining it later works too. But he did put it in the movie, there were several points where Finn feels Rey in the force, most notably at the end when she dies. I'd have to rewatch TFA and TLJ to see if there are any other moments But there’s no connection between that plot element and what he planned to tell Rey. It could equally be literally anything else that happens to Finn if that’s all the groundwork required to make that confession thing make sense. Maybe he was going to tell her he went to a casino!
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willow
Ruby
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Post by willow on Dec 30, 2019 10:19:51 GMT -6
But he did put it in the movie, there were several points where Finn feels Rey in the force, most notably at the end when she dies. I'd have to rewatch TFA and TLJ to see if there are any other moments But there’s no connection between that plot element and what he planned to tell Rey. It could equally be literally anything else that happens to Finn if that’s all the groundwork required to make that confession thing make sense. Maybe he was going to tell her he went to a casino! Yeah I agree that while I assumed that was what it was, it wasn’t a clear connection. Hence why I asked in this thread and why my H had other theories as well. JJ has really made a mess of things.
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Post by Dramaphile on Dec 30, 2019 10:20:57 GMT -6
But he did put it in the movie, there were several points where Finn feels Rey in the force, most notably at the end when she dies. I'd have to rewatch TFA and TLJ to see if there are any other moments But there’s no connection between that plot element and what he planned to tell Rey. It could equally be literally anything else that happens to Finn if that’s all the groundwork required to make that confession thing make sense. Maybe he was going to tell her he went to a casino! True, I wondered if it was declaring his One True Love for her.
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willow
Ruby
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Post by willow on Dec 30, 2019 10:33:13 GMT -6
But there’s no connection between that plot element and what he planned to tell Rey. It could equally be literally anything else that happens to Finn if that’s all the groundwork required to make that confession thing make sense. Maybe he was going to tell her he went to a casino! True, I wondered if it was declaring his One True Love for her. This would have been so annoying.
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Post by Dramaphile on Dec 30, 2019 10:40:03 GMT -6
True, I wondered if it was declaring his One True Love for her. This would have been so annoying. Oh for sure! I love that my husband is such a Poe/Finn shipper that when I told him that's what I thought he was appalled and said Finn would never.
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willow
Ruby
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Post by willow on Dec 30, 2019 10:57:38 GMT -6
This would have been so annoying. Oh for sure! I love that my husband is such a Poe/Finn shipper that when I told him that's what I thought he was appalled and said Finn would never. Lol I don’t really ship any of them together. I just want them to all be friends. But it would have been super eyeroll worthy if he suddenly declared his love for her. I was actually really into the idea of him getting together with the other ex-Stormtrooper. They had good chemistry.
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Post by cakewench on Dec 30, 2019 11:12:15 GMT -6
ILs finally left this morning. Here are my thoughts, now that I've had a lot of time to digest:
1. Agree they could have edited a bit more, there was a lot going on. For example, I thought Dominic Moynahan was unnecessary. His lines easily could have been given to Rose, and I am pissed at how her role was reduced in this movie. 2. They did a great job with Carrie Fisher. I love her, so anything with Leia made me tear up. 3. Lando was used just the right amount - enough that it served the story well, but not so much it felt like a forced cameo. 4. I was not expecting Harrison Ford. I think that was a nice way to handle what they clearly wanted to be Leia talking to her son. Plus it was a good callback to the bridge in Force Awakens. 5. Agree with PPs the "What will Finn tell Rey" thing was clumsy. 6. I heart Poe so hard, but that new addition to his backstory made me WTF. I did like his chemistry with Zorii and thought Keri Russell did a great job. 7. Baby Yoda/Babu Frik 2020 (PS Babu Frik is voiced by Moaning Myrtle and my mind is blown.) 8. I can absolutely believe that Palpatine had a family/kid when he was a Senator, so I don't think him having a grandchild is that out of the question. I'm hoping the expanded novel due out in March will elaborate on how he escaped the Second Death Star explosion because if his essence was just going into new clones, I don't get why the clone we saw had to be in such rough shape. 9. Chewie finally got his medal! 10. They missed an opportunity to have Force Ghost Yoda appear next to Luke after he raised the X-wing on Ach-To and say "Finally." 11. I really, really wanted more with the defected Stormtroopers. I hope there will be some novels coming out soon about them. Or maybe a Disney+ series? So much to explore there!
If anyone is interested, there's a novel called "Resistance Reborn" that mostly focuses on Poe and Leia after the events of The Last Jedi. It goes into Poe dealing with fucking the Resistance royally, and how they begin to rebuild.
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Post by cakewench on Dec 30, 2019 11:21:08 GMT -6
I want to see the trilogy. Overall I'm stunned Disney went into this without a cohesive roadmap. The rewriting of plot points is just...stupid and it certainly makes them look reactionary instead of thoughtful. The contraction of Rose's character sucked. She could have stood out in a number of ways or played a more pivotal role but they made a choice. I didn't hate it but I definitely feel meh about it. I also wanted more Babu Frick! 100% this to the bolded.
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willow
Ruby
Posts: 19,980 Likes: 127,981
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Post by willow on Dec 30, 2019 12:43:00 GMT -6
ILs finally left this morning. Here are my thoughts, now that I've had a lot of time to digest: 1. Agree they could have edited a bit more, there was a lot going on. For example, I thought Dominic Moynahan was unnecessary. His lines easily could have been given to Rose, and I am pissed at how her role was reduced in this movie. 2. They did a great job with Carrie Fisher. I love her, so anything with Leia made me tear up. 3. Lando was used just the right amount - enough that it served the story well, but not so much it felt like a forced cameo. 4. I was not expecting Harrison Ford. I think that was a nice way to handle what they clearly wanted to be Leia talking to her son. Plus it was a good callback to the bridge in Force Awakens. 5. Agree with PPs the "What will Finn tell Rey" thing was clumsy. 6. I heart Poe so hard, but that new addition to his backstory made me WTF. I did like his chemistry with Zorii and thought Keri Russell did a great job. 7. Baby Yoda/Babu Frik 2020 (PS Babu Frik is voiced by Moaning Myrtle and my mind is blown.) 8. I can absolutely believe that Palpatine had a family/kid when he was a Senator, so I don't think him having a grandchild is that out of the question. I'm hoping the expanded novel due out in March will elaborate on how he escaped the Second Death Star explosion because if his essence was just going into new clones, I don't get why the clone we saw had to be in such rough shape. 9. Chewie finally got his medal! 10. They missed an opportunity to have Force Ghost Yoda appear next to Luke after he raised the X-wing on Ach-To and say "Finally." 11. I really, really wanted more with the defected Stormtroopers. I hope there will be some novels coming out soon about them. Or maybe a Disney+ series? So much to explore there! If anyone is interested, there's a novel called "Resistance Reborn" that mostly focuses on Poe and Leia after the events of The Last Jedi. It goes into Poe dealing with fucking the Resistance royally, and how they begin to rebuild. For me the issue about the granddaughter thing was more timing. Theoretically he had to have been searching for Rey before he was killed by Vader in 1983 in our timeline. The flashbacks show Rey as a what... 7-10 year old girl when her parents put her into hiding? Which means she’d be over 40 in this series which is completely unbelievable.
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Post by sheilathetank on Dec 30, 2019 13:49:05 GMT -6
ILs finally left this morning. Here are my thoughts, now that I've had a lot of time to digest: 1. Agree they could have edited a bit more, there was a lot going on. For example, I thought Dominic Moynahan was unnecessary. His lines easily could have been given to Rose, and I am pissed at how her role was reduced in this movie. 2. They did a great job with Carrie Fisher. I love her, so anything with Leia made me tear up. 3. Lando was used just the right amount - enough that it served the story well, but not so much it felt like a forced cameo. 4. I was not expecting Harrison Ford. I think that was a nice way to handle what they clearly wanted to be Leia talking to her son. Plus it was a good callback to the bridge in Force Awakens. 5. Agree with PPs the "What will Finn tell Rey" thing was clumsy. 6. I heart Poe so hard, but that new addition to his backstory made me WTF. I did like his chemistry with Zorii and thought Keri Russell did a great job. 7. Baby Yoda/Babu Frik 2020 (PS Babu Frik is voiced by Moaning Myrtle and my mind is blown.) 8. I can absolutely believe that Palpatine had a family/kid when he was a Senator, so I don't think him having a grandchild is that out of the question. I'm hoping the expanded novel due out in March will elaborate on how he escaped the Second Death Star explosion because if his essence was just going into new clones, I don't get why the clone we saw had to be in such rough shape. 9. Chewie finally got his medal! 10. They missed an opportunity to have Force Ghost Yoda appear next to Luke after he raised the X-wing on Ach-To and say "Finally." 11. I really, really wanted more with the defected Stormtroopers. I hope there will be some novels coming out soon about them. Or maybe a Disney+ series? So much to explore there! If anyone is interested, there's a novel called "Resistance Reborn" that mostly focuses on Poe and Leia after the events of The Last Jedi. It goes into Poe dealing with fucking the Resistance royally, and how they begin to rebuild. For me the issue about the granddaughter thing was more timing. Theoretically he had to have been searching for Rey before he was killed by Vader in 1983 in our timeline. The flashbacks show Rey as a what... 7-10 year old girl when her parents put her into hiding? Which means she’d be over 40 in this series which is completely unbelievable. Exactly. If they had put one line in there about cloning or creating life I would have been much more willing to accept it. They passed it off as natural and well... No. Just no fucking way. No.
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Post by sheilathetank on Dec 30, 2019 13:51:10 GMT -6
ILs finally left this morning. Here are my thoughts, now that I've had a lot of time to digest: 1. Agree they could have edited a bit more, there was a lot going on. For example, I thought Dominic Moynahan was unnecessary. His lines easily could have been given to Rose, and I am pissed at how her role was reduced in this movie. 2. They did a great job with Carrie Fisher. I love her, so anything with Leia made me tear up. 3. Lando was used just the right amount - enough that it served the story well, but not so much it felt like a forced cameo. 4. I was not expecting Harrison Ford. I think that was a nice way to handle what they clearly wanted to be Leia talking to her son. Plus it was a good callback to the bridge in Force Awakens. 5. Agree with PPs the "What will Finn tell Rey" thing was clumsy. 6. I heart Poe so hard, but that new addition to his backstory made me WTF. I did like his chemistry with Zorii and thought Keri Russell did a great job. 7. Baby Yoda/Babu Frik 2020 (PS Babu Frik is voiced by Moaning Myrtle and my mind is blown.) 8. I can absolutely believe that Palpatine had a family/kid when he was a Senator, so I don't think him having a grandchild is that out of the question. I'm hoping the expanded novel due out in March will elaborate on how he escaped the Second Death Star explosion because if his essence was just going into new clones, I don't get why the clone we saw had to be in such rough shape. 9. Chewie finally got his medal! 10. They missed an opportunity to have Force Ghost Yoda appear next to Luke after he raised the X-wing on Ach-To and say "Finally." 11. I really, really wanted more with the defected Stormtroopers. I hope there will be some novels coming out soon about them. Or maybe a Disney+ series? So much to explore there! If anyone is interested, there's a novel called "Resistance Reborn" that mostly focuses on Poe and Leia after the events of The Last Jedi. It goes into Poe dealing with fucking the Resistance royally, and how they begin to rebuild. I am 100% not surprised Poe was a drug dealer. Fits his arrogant, I won't get caught, personality perfectly.
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