sterling
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Post by sterling on Mar 20, 2019 11:21:24 GMT -6
This thread, man. A million twists and turns! I’m largely with McBenny in feeling no sympathy for the trust fund kids who will now, what, get to be wildly privileged and successful by going to UCSB instead of USC? Nah. Can’t get it up for that. I’d chose UCSB over USC any day. Great school, gorgeous location, amazing marine science curriculum. See, Baby Becky will be fine.
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ftwr
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Post by ftwr on Mar 20, 2019 11:56:17 GMT -6
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sterling
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Post by sterling on Mar 20, 2019 11:58:34 GMT -6
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 12:00:52 GMT -6
I get what you're saying. This same conversation happens (not here, in life...but maybe here but anyway) when the conversation about race/privilege is brought up. It is easy for the privileged to get immediately defensive (aka fragile), and that's something we need to work really hard on not doing. Sometimes the answer is just to basically acknowledge the privilege and then NOT be fragile about it. Like sometimes it's ok to just...take a beating (for lack of better term) because frankly it's what under- and less-privileged folks have been doing for...ever. You have articulated my feelings so beautifully. I am going to go hang out in a more boring thread because this one made my blood pressure rise a bit. I had to steal some of my husband's blood pressure meds and I have very low blood pressure to begin with. (Please don't call the police, I am kidding.)
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 12:01:05 GMT -6
My gosh to all of those numbers.
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 12:06:53 GMT -6
I am skeptical of the "nationally representative" sample because people like my parents for sure did not answer this survey.
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soup
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Post by soup on Mar 20, 2019 12:18:27 GMT -6
I am skeptical of the "nationally representative" sample because people like my parents for sure did not answer this survey. Nationally representative of upper middle class English-speaking white people. This is precisely why people think such behavior is the norm. It is the norm...in these circles.
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gimmeaQ
Opal
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Post by gimmeaQ on Mar 20, 2019 12:27:58 GMT -6
Also, if not missing the toilet is part of what it takes to get in to Harvard, you would think there would be a lot less men at Harvard. also, women, if public toilets paint an accurate picture.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Mar 20, 2019 12:33:17 GMT -6
I don't help my kids with homework now. I mean I am there if there is a question or issue or MH is.
I didn't even make it to high school.
Fail.
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Bookshelves
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Post by Bookshelves on Mar 20, 2019 13:53:00 GMT -6
I ran into one of my college professors a few years ago, and he was telling me about how much worse the micromanaging by parents is now than when I was in college. (He started there in fall 2001, when I was a freshman.) Parents calling to bitch about a kid’s grade on a paper. Parents calling to make excuses for why something is late. Parents complaining to the college about how he is a tough professor. (He was — and also the best one that I had!) Apparently this went on a bit when I was there, but has gotten 1,000 times worse. /anecdote
I called my parents once a week or so in college, so that they would know I was alive. I would’ve never dreamed of involving them in my academics, so I was very wooow. I am still very wow about it.
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Post by allthekristys on Mar 20, 2019 14:00:09 GMT -6
I work in higher ed and have received phone calls from parents asking how to do certain things bc they are doing it on behalf of their child. Not schoolwork, but administrative type things.
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Mar 20, 2019 15:25:54 GMT -6
Even if I wanted to, I couldn't log into my son's college account to check grades, turn in online papers or even get the 1098 form for taxes. Cause he works for the school part time, his online portal now links to the administrative/admission/financial aid stuff. So if I did log in as him, he'd likely get fired when they got an alert that someone was accessing his account on a different computer.
Anyways. The closest I got to doing something for my kids in high school, (aside from normal, mom would you read this paper and tell me if it makes sense) was when oldest had to do a pretend 30 day tour of europe, hitting like 10 countries and write up a DAILY log of what you did and what you liked etc, including maps and pictures of where he went, timeline of what you ate, where you slept, like 8 different things done for each day, what you wore, what the weather was like. For some bullshit filler class his freshman year. It was assigned on a friday, due on a monday. So I sat next to him and we typed and copy and pasted pictures, maps, and random things about 10 countries in Europe. Cause it was bullshit. But he told me what to do, I just helped him get it done faster cause he was and still is the slowest typer in the universe. We spent sooo many hours doing that. He didn't even own a computer to do the work himself at the time. total bullshit assignment. everyone who didn't have parent help on the assignment failed the class. And so I reported the issue to the principal, they talked to several other parents I knew and we got the teacher fired at the end of the semester.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 20, 2019 15:56:58 GMT -6
I mean... my gosh AmyG. I don't necessarily agree with that assignment because honestly I skimmed the details of what you wrote, but getting the teacher fired over it? Damn.
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Bookshelves
Emerald
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Post by Bookshelves on Mar 20, 2019 16:01:32 GMT -6
“The closest I came to doing something for my kids in high school... was getting a teacher fired.” ![](https://media.giphy.com/media/gBIBDvDJ5J7dS/giphy.gif)
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Mar 20, 2019 16:02:32 GMT -6
I mean... my gosh AmyG . I don't necessarily agree with that assignment because honestly I skimmed the details of what you wrote, but getting the teacher fired over it? Damn. It was an example of totally not appropriate assignments thru the semester. They started out ok, but then kind of forgot what the subject was. it wasn't a world travel class or an english or social studies/world history study class, it was um, agribusiness or ag science I forget. lol. I've gotten 3 teachers fired in my life that I admit to one was a math professor teaching how to do diff eq totally wrong in college. He was making tons of mistakes, we think a drinking problem. the other teaching only using worksheets in 3rd grade, never ever standing in the front of the class explaining things. Only passing out a worksheet, reading the directions at the top and then sitting at her desk. not sure what was up with that. I was volunteering in class that day when principal came in unannounced, saw the situation, left and a long term sub was in place the next week.
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Mar 20, 2019 16:05:25 GMT -6
My complaints about those teachers were obviously not the only complaint, other people complained and brought evidence to their higher ups.
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ftwr
Sapphire
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Post by ftwr on Mar 20, 2019 16:11:31 GMT -6
I mean...you absolutely could log into the self-service portal to see account invoices, financial aid, etc. Hell, you could probably log in to see his W2 and direct deposit information too. The self-service sites aren't usually locked down to an employee network otherwise student employees could never do anything on their account unless on an employee network computer. What you couldn't do is even bring up the log-in page for the actual SIS because you wouldn't be on the correct network.
But that's all beside the point.
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Post by angelashly on Mar 20, 2019 16:17:05 GMT -6
I mean... my gosh AmyG. I don't necessarily agree with that assignment because honestly I skimmed the details of what you wrote, but getting the teacher fired over it? Damn. I’m going out on a limb that she wasn’t the only complaint.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 20, 2019 16:19:30 GMT -6
I mean... my gosh AmyG . I don't necessarily agree with that assignment because honestly I skimmed the details of what you wrote, but getting the teacher fired over it? Damn. I’m going out on a limb that she wasn’t the only complaint. I get that but... was it really just one assignment? I am going to have to assume there was more to the story there.
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Post by angelashly on Mar 20, 2019 16:23:39 GMT -6
I’m going out on a limb that she wasn’t the only complaint. I get that but... was it really just one assignment? I am going to have to assume there was more to the story there. I’m sure it was but maybe that was the only one she complained about. Also if kids failed over it I would take it’s matter higher up
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AmyG
Ruby
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Post by AmyG on Mar 20, 2019 17:38:02 GMT -6
Even if I wanted to, I couldn't log into my son's college account to check grades, turn in online papers or even get the 1098 form for taxes. Cause he works for the school part time, his online portal now links to the administrative/admission/financial aid stuff. So if I did log in as him, he'd likely get fired when they got an alert that someone was accessing his account on a different computer. Anyways. The closest I got to doing something for my kids in high school, (aside from normal, mom would you read this paper and tell me if it makes sense) was when oldest had to do a pretend 30 day tour of europe, hitting like 10 countries and write up a DAILY log of what you did and what you liked etc, including maps and pictures of where he went, timeline of what you ate, where you slept, like 8 different things done for each day, what you wore, what the weather was like. For some bullshit filler class his freshman year. It was assigned on a friday, due on a monday. So I sat next to him and we typed and copy and pasted pictures, maps, and random things about 10 countries in Europe. Cause it was bullshit. But he told me what to do, I just helped him get it done faster cause he was and still is the slowest typer in the universe. We spent sooo many hours doing that. He didn't even own a computer to do the work himself at the time. total bullshit assignment. everyone who didn't have parent help on the assignment failed the class. And so I reported the issue to the principal, they talked to several other parents I knew and we got the teacher fired at the end of the semester. That was a really shitty way for the teach to assign a kinda cool project, and it sounds like there were broader issues with his teaching/assessment abilities. Kudos to you for fighting for the systemic change rather than asking for an extension/special privileges for just your kid. I never look to fix things for just my kid. I try to always advocate for all the kids. Like i do scouting as a leader cause i would do the camp, hike, backpack outdoors stuff and citizen how to fold a flag etc with my kid but why not drag a bunch of other kids along with us? We do outdoor ed in 6tg grade in az. All kids are supposed to get a taste of outdoor stuff. They stay overnight in cabins. I go most years and teach how to put up a tent. Fire safety and we cook something that isnt smores over the fire. In scouts I teach personsl management merit badge, money and budgeting. I throw in meal planning, comparison shopping, fafsa, school/college finances, budget/money apps wherever I can.
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auburn
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Post by auburn on Mar 20, 2019 20:12:17 GMT -6
What exactly do you feel isn't necessary at the high school level? Yeah see piratecat this is where I think we fall off the same page I do think that you can help your high school student the same way you would an elementary school kid and still teach them to be independent. I am a high school English teacher. I am here to tell you they need A LOT of help.
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loony
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Post by loony on Mar 20, 2019 20:18:26 GMT -6
Yeah see piratecat this is where I think we fall off the same page I do think that you can help your high school student the same way you would an elementary school kid and still teach them to be independent. I am a high school English teacher. I am here to tell you they need A LOT of help. Community college aged students do too. I had a student come in this week and said her instructor apologized for her lack of high school education and sent her to the writing tutor. She was crushed. Luckily our tutors are great and she came out of the situation with a better experience. I wish the instructor had better manners about it, but this student is NOT alone in not actually being ready.
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Post by SayitaintSnow on Mar 20, 2019 22:19:12 GMT -6
I am a high school English teacher. I am here to tell you they need A LOT of help. Community college aged students do too. I had a student come in this week and said her instructor apologized for her lack of high school education and sent her to the writing tutor. She was crushed. Luckily our tutors are great and she came out of the situation with a better experience. I wish the instructor had better manners about it, but this student is NOT alone in not actually being ready. This is not limited to CC, though it seems to be more common there. But I have seen abysmal writing skills at decently ranked four year colleges as well. It pretty much always has less to do with the students' innate abilities and much more to do with the amount of support they received (at home and at school). If the don't have someone to help enculturate them into higher ed, they start off at an immediate disadvantage.
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Post by hardlyluck on Mar 20, 2019 22:52:49 GMT -6
Community college aged students do too. I had a student come in this week and said her instructor apologized for her lack of high school education and sent her to the writing tutor. She was crushed. Luckily our tutors are great and she came out of the situation with a better experience. I wish the instructor had better manners about it, but this student is NOT alone in not actually being ready. This is not limited to CC, though it seems to be more common there. But I have seen abysmal writing skills at decently ranked four year colleges as well. It pretty much always has less to do with the students' innate abilities and much more to do with the amount of support they received (at home and at school). If the don't have someone to help enculturate them into higher ed, they start off at an immediate disadvantage. I’m laughing (not at you!) because we’ve just spent PAGES debating the semantics of parental help being called an unfair advantage, advantage privilege, or support. And here, in certain ways anyway, it’s considered a disadvantage. I’m really not trying to say anything deeper than that, just sleep deprived and amused by inane things.
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Post by angelashly on Mar 21, 2019 6:27:14 GMT -6
Community college aged students do too. I had a student come in this week and said her instructor apologized for her lack of high school education and sent her to the writing tutor. She was crushed. Luckily our tutors are great and she came out of the situation with a better experience. I wish the instructor had better manners about it, but this student is NOT alone in not actually being ready. This is not limited to CC, though it seems to be more common there. But I have seen abysmal writing skills at decently ranked four year colleges as well. It pretty much always has less to do with the students' innate abilities and much more to do with the amount of support they received (at home and at school). If the don't have someone to help enculturate them into higher ed, they start off at an immediate disadvantage. The professors here just had a whole meeting complaining about the writing that the students were turning in even as juniors. They are talking about setting up workshops
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 21, 2019 6:45:35 GMT -6
Community college aged students do too. I had a student come in this week and said her instructor apologized for her lack of high school education and sent her to the writing tutor. She was crushed. Luckily our tutors are great and she came out of the situation with a better experience. I wish the instructor had better manners about it, but this student is NOT alone in not actually being ready. This is not limited to CC, though it seems to be more common there. But I have seen abysmal writing skills at decently ranked four year colleges as well. It pretty much always has less to do with the students' innate abilities and much more to do with the amount of support they received (at home and at school). If the don't have someone to help enculturate them into higher ed, they start off at an immediate disadvantage. How much of this is due to the fact that some schools require far less "writing" (whether it's physical writing or on a computer)?
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 21, 2019 7:07:37 GMT -6
This is not limited to CC, though it seems to be more common there. But I have seen abysmal writing skills at decently ranked four year colleges as well. It pretty much always has less to do with the students' innate abilities and much more to do with the amount of support they received (at home and at school). If the don't have someone to help enculturate them into higher ed, they start off at an immediate disadvantage. I’m laughing (not at you!) because we’ve just spent PAGES debating the semantics of parental help being called an unfair advantage, advantage privilege, or support. And here, in certain ways anyway, it’s considered a disadvantage. I’m really not trying to say anything deeper than that, just sleep deprived and amused by inane things. I am so confused by what's happening. Apparently my reading comprehension is not ready for internet forums.
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auburn
Sapphire
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Post by auburn on Mar 21, 2019 8:04:30 GMT -6
This is not limited to CC, though it seems to be more common there. But I have seen abysmal writing skills at decently ranked four year colleges as well. It pretty much always has less to do with the students' innate abilities and much more to do with the amount of support they received (at home and at school). If the don't have someone to help enculturate them into higher ed, they start off at an immediate disadvantage. How much of this is due to the fact that some schools require far less "writing" (whether it's physical writing or on a computer)? For us, part of the problem is they aren’t writing much outside of an English classroom. Also, recently we wrote a research paper and the citations were horrendous. They argued that no one had ever told them that you have to cite information if it’s paraphrased. I know that’s not true. My kid, in the fourth grade and same county system, is being taught to cite sources. I don’t know. It’s really bad and I work at a great school. The discrepancy between honors and AP and a general class is shocking. ETA: we actually went through an example paper and practiced citing and then very few did it. They don’t see it as important.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 21, 2019 8:19:38 GMT -6
How much of this is due to the fact that some schools require far less "writing" (whether it's physical writing or on a computer)? For us, part of the problem is they aren’t writing much outside of an English classroom. Also, recently we wrote a research paper and the citations were horrendous. They argued that no one had ever told them that you have to cite information if it’s paraphrased. I know that’s not true. My kid, in the fourth grade and same county system, is being taught to cite sources. I don’t know. It’s really bad and I work at a great school. The discrepancy between honors and AP and a general class is shocking. ETA: we actually went through an example paper and practiced citing and then very few did it. They don’t see it as important. Right. Like I remember having papers for science, civics, Spanish, Ag, math- pretty much everything but PE and chorus had a multi page paper at some point. From those I have talked to that are high school/college now, that wasn't the case in some districts. My 2nd grader has research papers and has to cite things. So somewhere there was a disconnect.
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