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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 9:12:27 GMT -6
This. It's been acknowledged over and over and over and over. And yet that is the only point that keeps getting brought up, so that's where we have stayed because we keep getting told to acknowledge it. So we do again. And get told to acknowledge it. So we do. Again. At this point it's preaching to the choir. Maybe it is frustrating for you to acknowledge over and over, but imagine how frustrating (to put it mildly) it is for the underprivileged that things don't ever change. Like cry me a fucking river. What's next? I don't know. Raising better humans, for one. You can't level up to do that until after you have written "I acknowledge my privilege" over and over a bazillion times and your parents have proofread it all. Stop whining about people being defensive if you are pulling this attitude.
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piratecat
Diamond
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 9:12:31 GMT -6
I get it. I'm not sure that I would have chosen that word - although it doesn't feel as negative to *me* but I can see where you and others are coming from - but I do agree in the sense that I feel it is largely unnecessarily at the HS level. But these are just opinions and I think it is slightly a different conversation than the one about privilege, which is what I was trying to distinguish. What exactly do you feel isn't necessary at the high school level? Parents proofreading or otherwise helping with school work.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 9:13:55 GMT -6
What exactly do you feel isn't necessary at the high school level? Parents proofreading or otherwise helping with school work. How many times have we stated it wasn't daily school work unless it was a major paper? And I disagree with you 1 million percent. Parents should not be hands off with a 14 year old high school freshman.
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Sundae
Builder
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Post by Sundae on Mar 20, 2019 9:15:05 GMT -6
My parents never checked my homework or helped proofread. My mom was in law school the last three years I was in high school, so she didn't have the time, and never would have offered. She filled out and submitted my sister's college applications (to state school, no essays to write) because my sister is her favorite and "needs" more help than I do. She still throws her birthday parties (she's 34) while I get a text. Maybe.
My dad tried to proofread my college essay without me knowing. We all shared one computer, and I found a printed copy with his notes all over it "who cares??", etc. So that was fun. I submitted my copy anyway. And got into the school I wanted. So there.
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Post by angelashly on Mar 20, 2019 9:17:41 GMT -6
This. It's been acknowledged over and over and over and over. And yet that is the only point that keeps getting brought up, so that's where we have stayed because we keep getting told to acknowledge it. So we do again. And get told to acknowledge it. So we do. Again. At this point it's preaching to the choir. Maybe it is frustrating for you to acknowledge over and over, but imagine how frustrating (to put it mildly) it is for the underprivileged that things don't ever change. Like cry me a fucking river. What's next? I don't know. Raising better humans, for one. You can't level up to do that until after you have written "I acknowledge my privilege" over and over a bazillion times and your parents have proofread it all. And this is why people are asking what should they do with their kids then? Not help them at all in any way so everyone is even? No snark I am genuinely curious
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piratecat
Diamond
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 9:20:53 GMT -6
Parents proofreading or otherwise helping with school work. How many times have we stated it wasn't daily school work unless it was a major paper? And I disagree with you 1 million percent. Parents should not be hands off with a 14 year old high school freshman. And that's okay and I don't care.
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
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Post by McBenny on Mar 20, 2019 9:21:51 GMT -6
I don't think having a parent that can assist you (not do it for you) is an unfair advantage. It is an advantage.
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kmkd
Amethyst
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Post by kmkd on Mar 20, 2019 9:22:22 GMT -6
What exactly do you feel isn't necessary at the high school level? Parents proofreading or otherwise helping with school work. Ah ok I do disagree with this. But neither one of us is right or wrong.
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Post by angelashly on Mar 20, 2019 9:23:04 GMT -6
I don't think having a parent that can assist you (not do it for you) is an unfair advantage. It is an advantage. This is how I look at it too
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inthekitty
Emerald
My eyes are up here.
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Post by inthekitty on Mar 20, 2019 9:26:17 GMT -6
My use of "inappropriate" is being looked at with a magnifying glass too much. But I still stand by my opinion that a high-schooler's work should be a high-schooler's work and not regularly having corrections from parents. I never once said parents shouldn't ever help at all or be completely uninvolved with their kid's education. It's been addressed many times the difference between a parent's assistance versus a teacher's. Mrs. Baker in 10th grade lit doesn't care about Aiden's dad's thoughts on To Kill A Mockingbird or if Aiden's mom uses an Oxford comma. She wants to see Aiden's work.
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 9:27:38 GMT -6
Maybe it is frustrating for you to acknowledge over and over, but imagine how frustrating (to put it mildly) it is for the underprivileged that things don't ever change. Like cry me a fucking river. What's next? I don't know. Raising better humans, for one. You can't level up to do that until after you have written "I acknowledge my privilege" over and over a bazillion times and your parents have proofread it all. And this is why people are asking what should they do with their kids then? Not help them at all in any way so everyone is even? No snark I am genuinely curious You don't have to do anything differently other than recognize it and give a shit. Which I know you do. You talk to your daughter about it so that she knows and cares.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 9:29:44 GMT -6
My use of "inappropriate" is being looked at with a magnifying glass too much. But I still stand by my opinion that a high-schooler's work should be a high-schooler's work and not regularly having corrections from parents. I never once said parents shouldn't ever help at all or be completely uninvolved with their kid's education. It's been addressed many times the difference between a parent's assistance versus a teacher's. Mrs. Baker in 10th grade lit doesn't care about Aiden's dad's thoughts on To Kill A Mockingbird or if Aiden's mom uses an Oxford comma. She wants to see Aiden's work. You have still not addressed why a peer or teacher is an acceptable resource but a parent is not. She doesn't want to see her own work or that of another teacher or peer, but you are ok with them assisting. Why is that?
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 9:33:31 GMT -6
Parents proofreading or otherwise helping with school work. Ah ok I do disagree with this. But neither one of us is right or wrong. Exactly. I mostly have no clue when it comes to parenting. We are all doing what we think is best for our kids.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 20, 2019 9:36:19 GMT -6
I don't think having a parent that can assist you (not do it for you) is an unfair advantage. It is an advantage. Yes, this.
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piratecat
Diamond
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 9:39:20 GMT -6
I don't think having a parent that can assist you (not do it for you) is an unfair advantage. It is an advantage. I guess in my mind any advantage is unfair to the people that don't have it. But I can see where people are coming from with the distinction and the different connotations.
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inthekitty
Emerald
My eyes are up here.
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Post by inthekitty on Mar 20, 2019 9:39:30 GMT -6
My use of "inappropriate" is being looked at with a magnifying glass too much. But I still stand by my opinion that a high-schooler's work should be a high-schooler's work and not regularly having corrections from parents. I never once said parents shouldn't ever help at all or be completely uninvolved with their kid's education. It's been addressed many times the difference between a parent's assistance versus a teacher's. Mrs. Baker in 10th grade lit doesn't care about Aiden's dad's thoughts on To Kill A Mockingbird or if Aiden's mom uses an Oxford comma. She wants to see Aiden's work. You have still not addressed why a peer or teacher is an acceptable resource but a parent is not. She doesn't want to see her own work or that of another teacher or peer, but you are ok with them assisting. Why is that? A teacher will not help a student beyond what they deem acceptable. Any student who goes to the teacher, in theory, will get the same assistance in whatever capacity that teacher is okay with. Students reviewing each other's papers are people on equal-ish footing and don't have the benefit of greater education. I don't care what others do, but in the long run I don't think it helps the student to be overly involved in their schoolwork. Maybe in HS they get better grades, but if they go to college used to having someone oversee the majority of their work it will be harder for them to organize and manage work on their own. It wasn't until here that I heard of parents reading through their high-schooler's essays and that's totally foreign to me.
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Minerva
Ruby
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Post by Minerva on Mar 20, 2019 9:42:44 GMT -6
This thread, man. A million twists and turns! I’m largely with McBenny in feeling no sympathy for the trust fund kids who will now, what, get to be wildly privileged and successful by going to UCSB instead of USC? Nah. Can’t get it up for that. I’d chose UCSB over USC any day. Great school, gorgeous location, amazing marine science curriculum.
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Post by SayitaintSnow on Mar 20, 2019 9:44:20 GMT -6
They actually want to do a quarterly check in on HiH to see how my posting is going, where I excel and what my development goals are. Look for an Outlook appointment. Not everyone has Outlook, can you use carrier pigeon? Just email me at my Hotmail address and I will pencil it into my datebook.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 9:45:26 GMT -6
You have still not addressed why a peer or teacher is an acceptable resource but a parent is not. She doesn't want to see her own work or that of another teacher or peer, but you are ok with them assisting. Why is that? A teacher will not help a student beyond what they deem acceptable. Any student who goes to the teacher, in theory, will get the same assistance in whatever capacity that teacher is okay with. Students reviewing each other's papers are people on equal-ish footing and don't have the benefit of greater education. I don't care what others do, but in the long run I don't think it helps the student to be overly involved in their schoolwork. Maybe in HS they get better grades, but if they go to college used to having someone oversee the majority of their work it will be harder for them to organize and manage work on their own. It wasn't until here that I heard of parents reading through their high-schooler's essays and that's totally foreign to me. So teachers are infallible and might never make bad choices? I can link you a few articles about that. Oh wait, that's part of the topic that brought this- educators and coaches making poor choices. I very much do not agree with your line of thinking about peer assistance and why it's acceptable. If Tommy writes Aiden's paper, that should be a problem. And you are also assuming everyone is college bound (which is a completely different issue, but since you brought it up). You are reaching with it being "the majority of their work". We were discussing applications and such, not daily homework.
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Post by sheilathetank on Mar 20, 2019 9:49:12 GMT -6
You have still not addressed why a peer or teacher is an acceptable resource but a parent is not. She doesn't want to see her own work or that of another teacher or peer, but you are ok with them assisting. Why is that? A teacher will not help a student beyond what they deem acceptable. Any student who goes to the teacher, in theory, will get the same assistance in whatever capacity that teacher is okay with. Students reviewing each other's papers are people on equal-ish footing and don't have the benefit of greater education. I don't care what others do, but in the long run I don't think it helps the student to be overly involved in their schoolwork. Maybe in HS they get better grades, but if they go to college used to having someone oversee the majority of their work it will be harder for them to organize and manage work on their own. It wasn't until here that I heard of parents reading through their high-schooler's essays and that's totally foreign to me. where do tutors and learning centers fall into this? Because both my high school and college offered free tutoring for almost every subject. So is it not really my work if I had a peer review my essay or help me with my spanish homework?
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inthekitty
Emerald
My eyes are up here.
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Post by inthekitty on Mar 20, 2019 9:50:32 GMT -6
A teacher will not help a student beyond what they deem acceptable. Any student who goes to the teacher, in theory, will get the same assistance in whatever capacity that teacher is okay with. Students reviewing each other's papers are people on equal-ish footing and don't have the benefit of greater education. I don't care what others do, but in the long run I don't think it helps the student to be overly involved in their schoolwork. Maybe in HS they get better grades, but if they go to college used to having someone oversee the majority of their work it will be harder for them to organize and manage work on their own. It wasn't until here that I heard of parents reading through their high-schooler's essays and that's totally foreign to me. So teachers are infallible and might never make bad choices? I can link you a few articles about that. Oh wait, that's part of the topic that brought this- educators and coaches making poor choices. I very much do not agree with your line of thinking about peer assistance and why it's acceptable. If Tommy writes Aiden's paper, that should be a problem. And you are also assuming everyone is college bound (which is a completely different issue, but since you brought it up). You are reaching with it being "the majority of their work". We were discussing applications and such, not daily homework. I never assumed everyone is college-bound--literally said "if" they are going to college. I also clearly said that "in theory" teacher's would give students roughly the same feedback. But go ahead and twist my words and claim for several pages that I said something that I didn't. I also didn't say I have a problem with occasional help, but was referring to cases where assistance on homework is the norm.
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McBenny
Unicorn
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Post by McBenny on Mar 20, 2019 9:51:11 GMT -6
I never had anyone help me with my homework. I didn't even know this was a thing when I was growing up. No one checked my grades or told me anything about my grades.
I got myself into college and no one checked my application or knew anything of what I was doing in college.
Again I didn't know other people's parents were involved. I guess I never thought about it. *
*I am not saying this is the way things should be done. I am speaking to my personal experience.
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McBenny
Unicorn
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Post by McBenny on Mar 20, 2019 9:53:02 GMT -6
A teacher will not help a student beyond what they deem acceptable. Any student who goes to the teacher, in theory, will get the same assistance in whatever capacity that teacher is okay with. Students reviewing each other's papers are people on equal-ish footing and don't have the benefit of greater education. I don't care what others do, but in the long run I don't think it helps the student to be overly involved in their schoolwork. Maybe in HS they get better grades, but if they go to college used to having someone oversee the majority of their work it will be harder for them to organize and manage work on their own. It wasn't until here that I heard of parents reading through their high-schooler's essays and that's totally foreign to me. where do tutors and learning centers fall into this? Because both my high school and college offered free tutoring for almost every subject. So is it not really my work if I had a peer review my essay or help me with my spanish homework? We also had free peer tutoring at my high school.
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inthekitty
Emerald
My eyes are up here.
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Post by inthekitty on Mar 20, 2019 9:55:32 GMT -6
I never had anyone help me with my homework. I didn't even know this was a thing when I was growing up. No one checked my grades or told me anything about my grades. I got myself into college and no one checked my application or knew anything of what I was doing in college. Again I didn't know other people's parents were involved. I guess I never thought about it. * *I am not saying this is the way things should be done. I am speaking to my personal experience. Same. It's a foreign concept to me. It was something I learned here because that was never my experience. However, I don't necessarily think it was a bad thing in my case. It helped me develop skills I needed later.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 9:55:48 GMT -6
So teachers are infallible and might never make bad choices? I can link you a few articles about that. Oh wait, that's part of the topic that brought this- educators and coaches making poor choices. I very much do not agree with your line of thinking about peer assistance and why it's acceptable. If Tommy writes Aiden's paper, that should be a problem. And you are also assuming everyone is college bound (which is a completely different issue, but since you brought it up). You are reaching with it being "the majority of their work". We were discussing applications and such, not daily homework. I never assumed everyone is college-bound--literally said "if" they are going to college. I also clearly said that "in theory" teacher's would give students roughly the same feedback. But go ahead and twist my words and claim for several pages that I said something that I didn't. I also didn't say I have a problem with occasional help, but was referring to cases where assistance on homework is the norm. Why are you assuming every parent will over step? What about college aged siblings? They have the "advantage" of higher education, so is their assistance not allowed, even though they are technically peers? Was I wrong to help my friends that had problems with math classes that I had already completed and had moved on to other classes? I had an advantage of additional education in that subject.
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 9:58:07 GMT -6
A teacher will not help a student beyond what they deem acceptable. Any student who goes to the teacher, in theory, will get the same assistance in whatever capacity that teacher is okay with. Students reviewing each other's papers are people on equal-ish footing and don't have the benefit of greater education. I don't care what others do, but in the long run I don't think it helps the student to be overly involved in their schoolwork. Maybe in HS they get better grades, but if they go to college used to having someone oversee the majority of their work it will be harder for them to organize and manage work on their own. It wasn't until here that I heard of parents reading through their high-schooler's essays and that's totally foreign to me. where do tutors and learning centers fall into this? Because both my high school and college offered free tutoring for almost every subject. So is it not really my work if I had a peer review my essay or help me with my spanish homework? I think one of the big distinctions is access. Everyone has access to free tutoring, which is great. Not everyone has access to a capable parent at home or a paid tutor. Again, *I* am not saying that you shouldn't help or pay for a tutor for your kid, just that these are privileges that some kids have over others.
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inthekitty
Emerald
My eyes are up here.
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Post by inthekitty on Mar 20, 2019 10:01:42 GMT -6
I never assumed everyone is college-bound--literally said "if" they are going to college. I also clearly said that "in theory" teacher's would give students roughly the same feedback. But go ahead and twist my words and claim for several pages that I said something that I didn't. I also didn't say I have a problem with occasional help, but was referring to cases where assistance on homework is the norm. Why are you assuming every parent will over step? What about college aged siblings? They have the "advantage" of higher education, so is their assistance not allowed, even though they are technically peers? Was I wrong to help my friends that had problems with math classes that I had already completed and had moved on to other classes? I had an advantage of additional education in that subject. I'm not assuming every parent will overstep but people have referred to their parents going through their whole essays with the red pen (and I'm not just talking something major like a college entrance essay, regular HW assignments) in the past. To ME, this is overstepping and different than asking for help on a specific part of an assignment.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 10:03:34 GMT -6
A teacher will not help a student beyond what they deem acceptable. Any student who goes to the teacher, in theory, will get the same assistance in whatever capacity that teacher is okay with. Students reviewing each other's papers are people on equal-ish footing and don't have the benefit of greater education. I don't care what others do, but in the long run I don't think it helps the student to be overly involved in their schoolwork. Maybe in HS they get better grades, but if they go to college used to having someone oversee the majority of their work it will be harder for them to organize and manage work on their own. It wasn't until here that I heard of parents reading through their high-schooler's essays and that's totally foreign to me. where do tutors and learning centers fall into this? Because both my high school and college offered free tutoring for almost every subject. So is it not really my work if I had a peer review my essay or help me with my spanish homework? HOW COULD YOU? !? Now I'm laughing that when I was in Spanish IV the instructor would have me help the Spanish I students with dialogue for their skits. She would help as well. We often had to write entire sections because there were a lot of things they hadn't covered yet. We should be punished I'm sure.
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Post by ladybrienne on Mar 20, 2019 10:04:52 GMT -6
What exactly do you feel isn't necessary at the high school level? Parents proofreading or otherwise helping with school work. I never would have graduated High School if my Mom didn't help me with math. Those damn PSA tests almost fucked me. I scored "average" but you had to be proficient. I was terrible at it, still am.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 10:07:01 GMT -6
Why are you assuming every parent will over step? What about college aged siblings? They have the "advantage" of higher education, so is their assistance not allowed, even though they are technically peers? Was I wrong to help my friends that had problems with math classes that I had already completed and had moved on to other classes? I had an advantage of additional education in that subject. I'm not assuming every parent will overstep but people have referred to their parents going through their whole essays with the red pen (and I'm not just talking something major like a college entrance essay, regular HW assignments) in the past. To ME, this is overstepping and different than asking for help on a specific part of an assignment. I will agree there. And I haven't seen that mentioned on daily things, but on major term papers or applications. That was not at all the topic and no one else was talking about daily work and you left out major details. ::points to the last few pages:: See what you did?
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