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Post by wildflower on Mar 19, 2019 13:46:25 GMT -6
1: a lot of these kids would not have gotten in on their own merits without the cheating. Wouldnβt a person at 18 fill out their own paperwork and also have the awareness of knowing that you werenβt qualified for the school? 2: as stated above. They are not fucked. Their lives are not βruinedβ by any stretch. When your parents are literally spending thousands of dollars to get you into a specific college.... no, they aren't doing their own paperwork. Two extremely different worlds there.
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Post by wildflower on Mar 19, 2019 13:52:07 GMT -6
So I guess the main thing I'm gaining from the last 6-7 pages of this thread is that telling my kid "nope, that's not mommy's job, that's your job", when it comes to basic stuff like putting away his own backpack and getting himself dressed, is actually a huge parenting win, not just be being a lazy mom. He's 4, and I'm already over doing crap for him when I don't have to.
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mack
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Post by mack on Mar 19, 2019 13:53:04 GMT -6
My coworker has a scheduled, quarterly check in with his sonβs boss. His son is a 27 year old man. My coworker is looking for a roommate for her 30 something daughter to get her to move out of the house. She still has access to her married 30 something son's bank accounts and pays bills for him. My mom would laugh if I asked her to do that unless I was paying her to do that. One of my co-workers texted his boss that he would be late because "his mom told him he should go get something at the pharmacy before work."
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bazi
Opal
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Post by bazi on Mar 19, 2019 13:55:33 GMT -6
My coworker has a scheduled, quarterly check in with his sonβs boss. His son is a 27 year old man. My gosh. Why does the boss even entertain that, though? I think the bossβs boss is a friend of my coworker? So a healthy dose of nepotism on top of some serious helicopter parenting. The best part was coworker told us all this like he was an A+ dad for being so involved. And we are all staring at him like
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Mar 19, 2019 14:31:37 GMT -6
I feel like there are a lot of gross things being said on both sides of the argument in here. I can't exactly explain it, but the entire thing is making me feel really icky. For clarity's sake - I am not arguing. I just spoke from my heart or the stone in its place, depending on who you talk to.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Mar 19, 2019 14:32:14 GMT -6
My gosh. Why does the boss even entertain that, though? I think the bossβs boss is a friend of my coworker? So a healthy dose of nepotism on top of some serious helicopter parenting. The best part was coworker told us all this like he was an A+ dad for being so involved. And we are all staring at him like this gif is everything. My expression for a lot of comments in this thread.
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Mar 19, 2019 14:37:54 GMT -6
1: a lot of these kids would not have gotten in on their own merits without the cheating. Wouldnβt a person at 18 fill out their own paperwork and also have the awareness of knowing that you werenβt qualified for the school? 2: as stated above. They are not fucked. Their lives are not βruinedβ by any stretch. When your parents are literally spending thousands of dollars to get you into a specific college.... no, they aren't doing their own paperwork. Two extremely different worlds there. Itβs not just the parents spending $$$$$. My niece applied to colleges last year and from what I gathered from her and her peersβ experience is the days of sitting alone at the dining room table, handwriting your application, and sending it out yourself (my experience), is not anywhere close to the norm anymore.
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Post by angelashly on Mar 19, 2019 14:52:31 GMT -6
When your parents are literally spending thousands of dollars to get you into a specific college.... no, they aren't doing their own paperwork. Two extremely different worlds there. Itβs not just the parents spending $$$$$. My niece applied to colleges last year and from what I gathered from her and her peersβ experience is the days of sitting alone at the dining room table, handwriting your application, and sending it out yourself (my experience), is not anywhere close to the norm anymore. Yes. Again the amount of times I get the phone call that starts with My son/daughter applied to your school and we are just wondering if he/she got in that I get daily are in double digits during admission time which really means I applied for your school for my son/daughter and want to know if I got in
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Post by SayitaintSnow on Mar 19, 2019 14:52:41 GMT -6
When your parents are literally spending thousands of dollars to get you into a specific college.... no, they aren't doing their own paperwork. Two extremely different worlds there. Itβs not just the parents spending $$$$$. My niece applied to colleges last year and from what I gathered from her and her peersβ experience is the days of sitting alone at the dining room table, handwriting your application, and sending it out yourself (my experience), is not anywhere close to the norm anymore. Do you mean that it is the norm for most people now to hire out help with their application paperwork? I don't think this is true (and correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you were saying).
ETA okay I reread -- maybe you mean that it's normal now for parents to do this for their kids? I could see that being more common now than back in the day.
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Post by angelashly on Mar 19, 2019 14:53:09 GMT -6
Itβs not just the parents spending $$$$$. My niece applied to colleges last year and from what I gathered from her and her peersβ experience is the days of sitting alone at the dining room table, handwriting your application, and sending it out yourself (my experience), is not anywhere close to the norm anymore. Do you mean that it is the norm for most people now to hire out help with their application paperwork? I don't think this is true (and correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you were saying). I think she meant that parents are very involved
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Mar 19, 2019 14:58:36 GMT -6
Itβs not just the parents spending $$$$$. My niece applied to colleges last year and from what I gathered from her and her peersβ experience is the days of sitting alone at the dining room table, handwriting your application, and sending it out yourself (my experience), is not anywhere close to the norm anymore. Do you mean that it is the norm for most people now to hire out help with their application paperwork? I don't think this is true (and correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you were saying).
ETA okay I reread -- maybe you mean that it's normal now for parents to do this for their kids? I could see that being more common now than back in the day.
Oh Jesus. I said nothing about hiring anyone. I, in fact, said itβs not just parents spending $$$$.
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Post by SayitaintSnow on Mar 19, 2019 14:59:26 GMT -6
My reading comprehension sucks. I'm going to ask my mom for help composing my future thoughts on this topic.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 19, 2019 15:02:10 GMT -6
When your parents are literally spending thousands of dollars to get you into a specific college.... no, they aren't doing their own paperwork. Two extremely different worlds there. Itβs not just the parents spending $$$$$. My niece applied to colleges last year and from what I gathered from her and her peersβ experience is the days of sitting alone at the dining room table, handwriting your application, and sending it out yourself (my experience), is not anywhere close to the norm anymore. The days of "Hey, I need a $35 check to this random ass school" because my mom had zero clue I even got info from that school are long gone.
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Mar 19, 2019 15:04:46 GMT -6
My reading comprehension sucks. I'm going to ask my mom for help composing my future thoughts on this topic. If your mom gives me $500k, Iβll write it out for you.
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Mar 19, 2019 15:06:24 GMT -6
I was always bitter my mom was involved with my brotherβs high school because she had no clue what was going on at my high school. College, I was basically a rabid raccoon and had absolutely no supervision.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 15:09:24 GMT -6
I failed out of college and got back in without anyone in my family knowing.
*I was considered emancipated in the eyes of the university.
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bazi
Opal
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Post by bazi on Mar 19, 2019 15:12:32 GMT -6
I'm still processing the quarterly meetings with the kid's boss. My mom wouldn't even make a phone call for me past a certain age. Christ on a cracker. [br
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bazi
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Post by bazi on Mar 19, 2019 15:13:39 GMT -6
OH and I forgot the best part, to bring it full circle.
The son supposedly does not know these calls take place.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 19, 2019 15:15:07 GMT -6
I guess my mom was pretty involved in my college admissions process compared to what has been mentioned here. She wasn't making phone calls or writing anything for me, but she knew where the admissions fees and applications were going. She proofread my college essays (that I typed on a computer, saved on a floppy disc TYVM). I will be helping my kids through the process in the same way.
But I make my kid put away her folded laundry and put her dishes in the sink, so balance?
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bazi
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Post by bazi on Mar 19, 2019 15:15:27 GMT -6
Me: what do you talk about? Coworker: you know, standard quarterly review. What heβs working on, where to give him some βatta boysβ and encouragement, what his development goals are. Itβs great. Boss says he loves reviewing it all with me. Me: .................. I canβt imagine a scenario where my parents are calling my boss. Unless Iβve been in an accident or something and wonβt be coming to work. I am in serious awe here. The parent that thinks this is good, the boss that goes along with it, the son in the midst of it all. What.the.fuck. My parents wouldn't even know who to call in such a situation. I'm willing to bet boss does not live reviewing it all. I feel very confident the boss does these calls, then turns to his boss and says βhow long do I have to keep chatting to your college buddy about his completely average son?β
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 19, 2019 15:19:02 GMT -6
OH and I forgot the best part, to bring it full circle. The son supposedly does not know these calls take place. MY GOSH.
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kmkd
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Post by kmkd on Mar 19, 2019 15:27:04 GMT -6
I guess my mom was pretty involved in my college admissions process compared to what has been mentioned here. She wasn't making phone calls or writing anything for me, but she knew where the admissions fees and applications were going. She proofread my college essays (that I typed on a computer, saved on a floppy disc TYVM). I will be helping my kids through the process in the same way. But I make my kid put away her folded laundry and put her dishes in the sink, so balance? I donβt see anything wrong with any of that. Thereβs obviously a spectrum of parental involvement and it can all be ok. (This is not directed at you, just in general).
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kmkd
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Post by kmkd on Mar 19, 2019 15:27:45 GMT -6
Except for bribery, fraud, etc. Thatβs not ok. Just in case.
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Post by stayingblonde on Mar 19, 2019 15:28:15 GMT -6
And this is all why my students, 1st gen, minority and/or low-income kids, are at such a huge disadvantage. They all desperately want to go to college, and they are SMART and work their asses off, but they are up against: ~Aunt Becky/Felicity Huffman ~Grandpa Moneybags buying a library for his mediocre progeny ~Parents dropping $$$ for college counselor ~College-educated parents completing or "helping" with applications/essays/etc
These kids obviously aren't bribing anyone, but they also don't even have someone who has done it before helping them though the process. They have to figure it all out on their own and do it all themselves. Well, they have me, because this is my literal job, but I have 60 of them this year and there is only one of me. And I'm obviously teaching them to do it themselves and not doing it for them. But FFS, this is like having your kid do his science project all on his own and then getting to the science fair and seeing that a bunch of scientist parents did the projects for everyone else and your kid gets a D even though he did his own damn work.
I know you guys know this, I'm just so fired up about it right now.
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Post by angelashly on Mar 19, 2019 15:35:41 GMT -6
I was always bitter my mom was involved with my brotherβs high school because she had no clue what was going on at my high school. College, I was basically a rabid raccoon and had absolutely no supervision. My sister is 24 and my mom still babies her waaaay more than I ever got. I'm told to take it as a compliment because she knows I can handle myself...? I just tell her it's ok, I know sister is her favorite. That makes her feel guilty, cause it's true, so she randomly sends me baked goods. Same. My mom always said I didnβt need her as much. Oh ok.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 19, 2019 15:54:20 GMT -6
And this is all why my students, 1st gen, minority and/or low-income kids, are at such a huge disadvantage. They all desperately want to go to college, and they are SMART and work their asses off, but they are up against: ~Aunt Becky/Felicity Huffman ~Grandpa Moneybags buying a library for his mediocre progeny ~Parents dropping $$$ for college counselor ~College-educated parents completing or "helping" with applications/essays/etc These kids obviously aren't bribing anyone, but they also don't even have someone who has done it before helping them though the process. They have to figure it all out on their own and do it all themselves. Well, they have me, because this is my literal job, but I have 60 of them this year and there is only one of me. And I'm obviously teaching them to do it themselves and not doing it for them. But FFS, this is like having your kid do his science project all on his own and then getting to the science fair and seeing that a bunch of scientist parents did the projects for everyone else and your kid gets a D even though he did his own damn work. I know you guys know this, I'm just so fired up about it right now. I agree with all of this.
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 19, 2019 15:55:43 GMT -6
I'm trying to figure out the difference between "helping" and helping. Helping is okay, "helping" means they are doing the work for their kid, yes?
ETA: I would like to be clear that I fully recognize the privilege that was afforded to me growing up and as it pertains to college admissions. In case that needs to be stated.
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soup
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Post by soup on Mar 19, 2019 15:56:16 GMT -6
And this is all why my students, 1st gen, minority and/or low-income kids, are at such a huge disadvantage. They all desperately want to go to college, and they are SMART and work their asses off, but they are up against: ~Aunt Becky/Felicity Huffman ~Grandpa Moneybags buying a library for his mediocre progeny ~Parents dropping $$$ for college counselor ~College-educated parents completing or "helping" with applications/essays/etc These kids obviously aren't bribing anyone, but they also don't even have someone who has done it before helping them though the process. They have to figure it all out on their own and do it all themselves. Well, they have me, because this is my literal job, but I have 60 of them this year and there is only one of me. And I'm obviously teaching them to do it themselves and not doing it for them. But FFS, this is like having your kid do his science project all on his own and then getting to the science fair and seeing that a bunch of scientist parents did the projects for everyone else and your kid gets a D even though he did his own damn work. I know you guys know this, I'm just so fired up about it right now. I am so with you on this! I was not at all disadvantaged financially. I was certainly privileged in that sense. But nobody was checking up on my work or applications or testing or anything like that. Neither of my parents went to school in this country. Neither of them could write themselves out of a paper bag. Proofread an essay? Not happening. Please. It was the other way around. My brother and I were writing business letters for our parents. Your students are so lucky to have you, even if there is only one you for 60 of them. I still feel so incredibly beholden to my high school counselor, who suggested that I apply to private schools instead of just the UC schools that I'd originally thought were my only option, and my senior English teacher, who not only wrote my recommendations but guided me through the general admissions process along with my counselor. So many kids don't have parents who are able to oversee or aid in this process. And so many kids also don't have people at school who can help either. (I got so lucky in this regard.) This is why this admissions scheme infuriates me so much. It's not a victimless crime. How many kids didn't get into college because of all these dishonest rich cheaters? I am just so angry.
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gussie
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Post by gussie on Mar 19, 2019 15:58:07 GMT -6
Iβm really really sorry. Thatβs sucks. Are there no recourse for rogue accountants? PDQ Unfortunately, I donβt think so. When my dad bought out his business partner he found out she was really bad at accounting and owed hundreds of thousands in tax penalties. Just penalties. The taxes were all paid correctly, just one day late each payroll. So much money for nothing.
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Post by stayingblonde on Mar 19, 2019 16:08:48 GMT -6
I'm trying to figure out the difference between "helping" and helping. Helping is okay, "helping" means they are doing the work for their kid, yes? ETA: I would like to be clear that I fully recognize the privilege that was afforded to me growing up and as it pertains to college admissions. In case that needs to be stated. IMO, yes, that's why I put the quotation marks. I helped my students - sat down next to them and walked them through every question on their applications, told them where to find the info from their transcripts and what it all meant, went through everything they needed to get from their parents for the FAFSA and how to fill it in. But that's different from mom saying she'll take a look at your essay and then completely rewriting it instead of giving suggestions on how you can improve it yourself, or whatever.
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