Otto.Warmbier

[mb3]

So I read this article a few days ago and I know it’s an old story but there was a lot of new-to-me info in it. www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/otto-warmbier-north-korea-american-hostage-true-story/amp
Let’s discuss!

[mb3]

I thought it was surprising to hear about the lack of physical injuries (healed broken bones) or indications that a beating had caused his brain damage. That was new info to me.

[mb3]

I was extremely surprised to hear about the level of medical care he received. I should have realized that KJU would have access to top level medical care but I didn’t. I’m amazed that he didn’t have any bedsores.

[mb3]

I didn’t know his parents were aware he was going to N Korea.

[mb3]

I am sure his parents feel awful for not stopping him but I’m surprised that given the lack of physical evidence of a beating that his parents withdrew their statement to GQ when they found out the article didn’t completely agree with them.

[joelies]

Not that I ever paid that much attention when it was happening, but I bought into the idea that he was physically beaten. Not surprised Trump didn't try to quash that when it suited his agenda. How awful how quickly this case was forgotten once the big summit was planned. I can't imagine being the parents in that situation, what a nightmare.

[joelies]

I was also surprised that he apparently had so little understanding of where he was going to. The tour group sounded like it had a reputation for only going to sketchy places but he clearly had no real idea.

[mb3]

Dec 26, 2018 14:20:58 GMT -6 joelies said:

I was also surprised that he apparently had so little understanding of where he was going to. The tour group sounded like it had a reputation for only going to sketchy places but he clearly had no real idea.

I can’t decide if he didn’t have any real idea or if he thought it just wouldn’t happen to him. Especially given his mom’s comment that “how do you say no to a kid like that?” it sounds like his parents were aware he was going and didn’t see the risk. I’m stunned though- it’s not like Americans haven’t regularly been kidnapped and imprisoned in N Korea.

[joelies]

mb3 - It's not that he didn't think he'd end up like he did, because no one expects that! I was thinking more the comments from other people on the tour suggesting he didn't realize that he was entering enemy territory. He sounded particularly naive about a place he was voluntarily going to. That surprised me, given how together he seemed and (as I mentioned before) that the tour company had a rep for going to riskier places.

It's just such an awful story.

[Uncaripswife]

Dec 26, 2018 13:07:33 GMT -6 mb3 said:

I thought it was surprising to hear about the lack of physical injuries (healed broken bones) or indications that a beating had caused his brain damage. That was new info to me.

Yes. I completely assumed that he had been tortured physically and that had caused his brain injury. I feel like the media led us to believe that.

It seems his parents don't accept this. But in their shoes I might need someone to vilify, too. It seems the narrative of physical abuse has given them some way of making sense of the senseless.

I think NK deserves vilification here even if the regime didn't physically torture him, ftr.

[mb3]

Dec 26, 2018 20:25:43 GMT -6 Uncaripswife said:

Dec 26, 2018 13:07:33 GMT -6 mb3 said:

I thought it was surprising to hear about the lack of physical injuries (healed broken bones) or indications that a beating had caused his brain damage. That was new info to me.

Yes. I completely assumed that he had been tortured physically and that had caused his brain injury. I feel like the media led us to believe that.

It seems his parents don't accept this. But in their shoes I might need someone to vilify, too. It seems the narrative of physical abuse has given them some way of making sense of the senseless.

I think NK deserves vilification here even if the regime didn't physically torture him, ftr.

Absolutely, but I also want it to be factual. I can completely understand why someone in his circumstances might have attempted suicide and I don’t even think it really matters if that’s why he had such severe brain damage- there should be more acknowledgment of the degree of psychological torture they’re engaging in.

[mb3]

Dec 26, 2018 20:35:18 GMT -6 mb3 said:

Dec 26, 2018 20:25:43 GMT -6 Uncaripswife said:

Yes. I completely assumed that he had been tortured physically and that had caused his brain injury. I feel like the media led us to believe that.

It seems his parents don't accept this. But in their shoes I might need someone to vilify, too. It seems the narrative of physical abuse has given them some way of making sense of the senseless.

I think NK deserves vilification here even if the regime didn't physically torture him, ftr.

Absolutely, but I also want it to be factual. I can completely understand why someone in his circumstances might have attempted suicide and I don’t even think it really matters if that’s why he had such severe brain damage- there should be more acknowledgment of the degree of psychological torture they’re engaging in.

Also, if he injured himself in some way as a result of their psychological torture I feel like they’re just as responsible as if they had physically beaten him to cause brain damage.

[mb3]

Dec 26, 2018 20:47:15 GMT -6 mb3 said:

Dec 26, 2018 20:35:18 GMT -6 mb3 said:

Absolutely, but I also want it to be factual. I can completely understand why someone in his circumstances might have attempted suicide and I don’t even think it really matters if that’s why he had such severe brain damage- there should be more acknowledgment of the degree of psychological torture they’re engaging in.

Also, if he injured himself in some way as a result of their psychological torture I feel like they’re just as responsible as if they had physically beaten him to cause brain damage.

Still awake and still thinking about this but I feel like insisting it’s due to physical torture/injury is tied into the idea that only weak people have mental health issues. As in, only a weak person would succumb to psychological torture. But ignoring the lifelong effects mental torture can have.

The former captives that they cite in the article, discussing the psychological torture NK carried out....I hadn’t heard those stories before and I HAD heard about some of them and their sentencing to hard labor/prison camps.

[AmyG]

There are forms of physical torture that don't leave lasting scars.
like fingernail removal, they just grow back usually looking the same.
oxygen deprivation at minimal level over time can cause injury to brain with none of the effects of actual suffocation.
stuff like that could drive a person mad enough to want to kill themselves as well.

[hawkeye2015]

His parents just won a wrongful death suit against North Korea for $500 million. They won't likely see that money. The judge said
Warmbiers had established "ample evidence" that the damages requested in their suit arose from "North Korea's barbaric mistreatment of Otto, including 'torture,' 'hostage taking,' and 'extrajudicial killing.'

www-m.cnn.com/2018/12/24/politics/otto-warmbier-north-korea-judgment/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=fbCNN&utm_term=link&utm_content=2018-12-29T12%3A30%3A09