Tlex
Ruby
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Post by Tlex on Oct 22, 2018 20:02:53 GMT -6
Tlex I saw the ATV theory too. But apparently people use trail cams around this time of year? So the internet strangers are telling me that something would have been recorded. The door thing is strange. Has it been clarified if door was kicked in, shot in, etc.? I just wonder if it was a rage thing or a means to entrance? I also can’t understand if they had such a beef with someone why no one has any knowledge of it. Yeah I mean I do not hunt but really is the whole forest on cam at all times? I thought trail cams pointed towards kind of specific areas that would attract the desired prey. I have no idea. It’s not confirmed how the door was broken into, they are purposely with holding that I think. Basically they have just confirmed that it was forcibly entered and people said you can see splintering of the door frame in the video of them bringing evidence out to the vans. To counter my own points, someone on either reddit or websleuths claims that kicking doors in is a really common robbery method. I was kind of “.......?” About that. Not sure how to go about verifying that. So if that’s true it’s a point in your arguments favour for sure. To *me* it seems like if you were gonna rob a place and we’re kicking the door in and were met with the homeowner, you might run off thinking they’d have the cops on the line? But someone in a rage would be raging. Re: their beef, no idea, it’s so strange that for a small town there are no rumours churning really. How squeaky clean can any family be?!
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brux
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Post by brux on Oct 22, 2018 20:03:24 GMT -6
What makes most sense to me is a robbery gone wrong, but a robbery committed by professionals and not strung out meth users.
I think the robbery targeted the wrong house and it took the robbers a while to believe the Closses when they said they didn’t have what the robbers were looking for.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Oct 22, 2018 20:04:23 GMT -6
It’s a possible stereotype, but people in small towns like that don’t use deadbolts on the doors, do they? So kicking in a door could be really easy.
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Tlex
Ruby
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Post by Tlex on Oct 22, 2018 20:10:21 GMT -6
What makes most sense to me is a robbery gone wrong, but a robbery committed by professionals and not strung out meth users. I think the robbery targeted the wrong house and it took the robbers a while to believe the Closses when they said they didn’t have what the robbers were looking for. So in your scenario I’m curious how you picture it going down. Do they break in while James is shouting at them, shoot him on the spot, then harass Denise asking where the money is or whatever, then shoot her and take Jayme and ditch out when they realize someone’s called 911? So intense to shoot the dad right off the bat for a home invasion.
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brux
Diamond
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Post by brux on Oct 22, 2018 20:14:02 GMT -6
What makes most sense to me is a robbery gone wrong, but a robbery committed by professionals and not strung out meth users. I think the robbery targeted the wrong house and it took the robbers a while to believe the Closses when they said they didn’t have what the robbers were looking for. So in your scenario I’m curious how you picture it going down. Do they break in while James is shouting at them, shoot him on the spot, then harass Denise asking where the money is or whatever, then shoot her and take Jayme and ditch out when they realize someone’s called 911? So intense to shoot the dad right off the bat for a home invasion. yeah, that’s my working theory and I agree that if you’re trying to get info out of someone, killing them immediately doesn’t make sense. Maybe the Target was the mom. Maybe she has a secret life.
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Tlex
Ruby
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Post by Tlex on Oct 22, 2018 20:17:19 GMT -6
So in your scenario I’m curious how you picture it going down. Do they break in while James is shouting at them, shoot him on the spot, then harass Denise asking where the money is or whatever, then shoot her and take Jayme and ditch out when they realize someone’s called 911? So intense to shoot the dad right off the bat for a home invasion. yeah, that’s my working theory and I agree that if you’re trying to get info out of someone, killing them immediately doesn’t make sense. Maybe the Target was the mom. Maybe she has a secret life. Maybe he wasn’t Jaymes bio dad. Or maybe someone in their family disagreed with how they were raising Jayme (like religiously or something)?
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Oct 22, 2018 20:34:07 GMT -6
I saw the mom didn’t pay her Capitol One card like 15 years ago. Not kidding. Like... when people were searching for beefs with the family, that’s what they came up with. Usually at this point, if something shady is going on, it’s starting to come out. It’s really weird.
Or Capitol One holds a long ass grudge.
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Post by CestLaVie on Oct 22, 2018 20:43:18 GMT -6
Tlex the trail cams are at a lot of the entrances and trails so people on atvs can check them easily. The person likely would've had to use a trail or rail bed to access with an ATV especially at night. I personally find the ATV theory really unlikely. An ATV would be so much more noteworthy than a car at night and the sound is memorable. It's also risky because in the dark you really have to know where you're going and stay on a trail or risk breaking something or getting stuck.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Oct 22, 2018 20:54:02 GMT -6
What makes most sense to me is a robbery gone wrong, but a robbery committed by professionals and not strung out meth users. I think the robbery targeted the wrong house and it took the robbers a while to believe the Closses when they said they didn’t have what the robbers were looking for. It's 2018. You can Google property tax records and GPS your location. A professional isn't going to hit the wrong house. There were a number of people claiming that with a case here. That was not at all what went down. They were at the right house. Why take the girl? If they were hard up for money, a 13 year old girl probably brings a decent amount of money.
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Oct 22, 2018 20:57:43 GMT -6
What makes most sense to me is a robbery gone wrong, but a robbery committed by professionals and not strung out meth users. I think the robbery targeted the wrong house and it took the robbers a while to believe the Closses when they said they didn’t have what the robbers were looking for. It's 2018. You can Google property tax records and GPS your location. A professional isn't going to hit the wrong house. There were a number of people claiming that with a case here. That was not at all what went down. They were at the right house. Why take the girl? If they were hard up for money, a 13 year old girl probably brings a decent amount of money. ... it happens more than you think. We almost bought a house from a mob boss and I went down a long research trail of hits/robberies/home invasions that target the wrong house. It was my #1 reason for walking away.
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Tlex
Ruby
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Post by Tlex on Oct 22, 2018 21:04:21 GMT -6
Tlex the trail cams are at a lot of the entrances and trails so people on atvs can check them easily. The person likely would've had to use a trail or rail bed to access with an ATV especially at night. I personally find the ATV theory really unlikely. An ATV would be so much more noteworthy than a car at night and the sound is memorable. It's also risky because in the dark you really have to know where you're going and stay on a trail or risk breaking something or getting stuck. Thank you, makes a lot of sense!
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Post by GhoatMonket on Oct 22, 2018 21:08:47 GMT -6
It's 2018. You can Google property tax records and GPS your location. A professional isn't going to hit the wrong house. There were a number of people claiming that with a case here. That was not at all what went down. They were at the right house. Why take the girl? If they were hard up for money, a 13 year old girl probably brings a decent amount of money. ... it happens more than you think. We almost bought a house from a mob boss and I went down a long research trail of hits/robberies/home invasions that target the wrong house. It was my #1 reason for walking away. Well maybe you should have bought that one then since they can't get the right place. That's just... they have a phone. Look up where you are before kicking in the door.
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Oct 22, 2018 21:19:44 GMT -6
... it happens more than you think. We almost bought a house from a mob boss and I went down a long research trail of hits/robberies/home invasions that target the wrong house. It was my #1 reason for walking away. Well maybe you should have bought that one then since they can't get the right place. That's just... they have a phone. Look up where you are before kicking in the door. You would think. But my google spiral led me to waking up MH in the middle of the night, crying and saying we gotta back out of the deal. They sold the house. I’ll let you know if the new owners get murdered.
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bobyn
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Post by bobyn on Oct 22, 2018 21:23:45 GMT -6
What makes most sense to me is a robbery gone wrong, but a robbery committed by professionals and not strung out meth users. I think the robbery targeted the wrong house and it took the robbers a while to believe the Closses when they said they didn’t have what the robbers were looking for. So in your scenario I’m curious how you picture it going down. Do they break in while James is shouting at them, shoot him on the spot, then harass Denise asking where the money is or whatever, then shoot her and take Jayme and ditch out when they realize someone’s called 911? So intense to shoot the dad right off the bat for a home invasion. But officers arrived four minutes after the 911 call had been placed. And the neighbors said the gun shots were close together.
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Oct 22, 2018 21:26:19 GMT -6
The thing is, even if it’s not drug fueled, when these things come to light, a lot of times these people are no masterminds. So all the things that don’t make sense to our reasonable minds, don’t even cross their minds.
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Post by unicornofthesea on Oct 22, 2018 22:00:39 GMT -6
So in your scenario I’m curious how you picture it going down. Do they break in while James is shouting at them, shoot him on the spot, then harass Denise asking where the money is or whatever, then shoot her and take Jayme and ditch out when they realize someone’s called 911? So intense to shoot the dad right off the bat for a home invasion. But officers arrived four minutes after the 911 call had been placed. And the neighbors said the gun shots were close together. Obviously an officer happened to be in the area when dispatched to the scene, no? Who knows what even took place before the 911 call and how long they were there. I also agree that they left in a hurry and just took her with them.
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mb3
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Post by mb3 on Oct 22, 2018 23:03:56 GMT -6
It’s a possible stereotype, but people in small towns like that don’t use deadbolts on the doors, do they? So kicking in a door could be really easy. So our town had a rash of breakins last year- mostly vehicles, but also some homes- and all were through unlocked doors. Our police department put out a lot of info on securing your home and I learned through them that the average door/door frame is not constructed in a way that prevents the door being kicked in and that this, in fact, a pretty common way thieves get in. To avoid it you need to have the door jam screwed far deeper into the surrounding studs with special screws. The average shallow screws will just let the frame splinter out and the deadbolt becomes meaningless. Which is a long and convoluted way to say that even with a deadbolt the door could have been kicked in.
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Post by fancynewbeesly on Oct 22, 2018 23:47:10 GMT -6
TlexWhen we were robbed years ago, our front door was kicked in. So it is possible for a random robbery to have a kicked in door.
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macic
Silver
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Post by macic on Oct 23, 2018 3:00:03 GMT -6
I joined an internet sluths group and they posted this. It’s not a Challenger, but the mom’s brother owns a car very similar to the one they discussed at the news conference. Very coincidental... I assume though the local police likely knew that and have questioned all family. ![](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181023/b6a184765e1e21191bf8a4fa9b0de634.png)
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Post by ArielMermaid on Oct 23, 2018 3:54:34 GMT -6
Usually break ins in small towns are through unlocked doors. Every time we have break ins around here it’s unlocked doors. Purely anecdotal but doors are never kicked in here. If you’re locked up, you’re good.
Trail cams usually point at someone’s Hunting spot. I don’t know about seasons anywhere else but it’s deer season here. If you ripped through someone’s hunting area with an ATV you’d be on a trail cam for sure. And you’d have a pissed hunter after you.
ATV seems way too loud for a night time get away. A car isn’t going to wake me up but an ATV might, you know?
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Post by readyornot on Oct 23, 2018 5:24:31 GMT -6
I live in a small town, rural area, & I deadbolt all the doors because I've seen the movie Strangers. "Because you were home" has scarred me for life ::shudder::
I'm afraid that the girl was the motive all along, & the killing the parents was all part of the plan to snatch her. I hope she is ok but IDK how she could be
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Post by GhoatMonket on Oct 23, 2018 6:47:26 GMT -6
It’s a possible stereotype, but people in small towns like that don’t use deadbolts on the doors, do they? So kicking in a door could be really easy. So our town had a rash of breakins last year- mostly vehicles, but also some homes- and all were through unlocked doors. Our police department put out a lot of info on securing your home and I learned through them that the average door/door frame is not constructed in a way that prevents the door being kicked in and that this, in fact, a pretty common way thieves get in. To avoid it you need to have the door jam screwed far deeper into the surrounding studs with special screws. The average shallow screws will just let the frame splinter out and the deadbolt becomes meaningless. Which is a long and convoluted way to say that even with a deadbolt the door could have been kicked in. Yeah, if you haven't done this, your deadbolt is pretty much for show. It will slow them down a bit.
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mack
Amethyst
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Post by mack on Oct 23, 2018 7:00:02 GMT -6
It makes me think that at least one of the two people is not a psychopath and had a hard time killing a kid on the spot. They convinced the other person to just take Jayme to be figured out at a later time. I agree that it doesn’t seem reasonable that she’s alive. Yes, this is my thought too. They didn’t know a kid was there, it was hard for them to kill a kid, whatever. But I think she saw them, cops were called and in a panic, they grabbed her because they hadn’t thought it out. It could have been a home invasion/robbery gone wrong from the jump. They come in, looking to get money and leave or whatever but dad fights back, mom calls cops, etc. Yeah, but I am still thinking it would be more efficient and timely to just shoot her like they shot the parents rather then get her to the car. Especially, if they are panicking, I would think they would just be going on impulse. Deciding to take her seems like it would have required a couple moments of debate or orchestration. The short time in which they were able to commit the murders and escape without being seen makes me feel like this was pre-planned. Like they intended to shoot the parents and abduct her from the get go.
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mack
Amethyst
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Post by mack on Oct 23, 2018 7:02:37 GMT -6
I saw the mom didn’t pay her Capitol One card like 15 years ago. Not kidding. Like... when people were searching for beefs with the family, that’s what they came up with. Usually at this point, if something shady is going on, it’s starting to come out. It’s really weird. Or Capitol One holds a long ass grudge. Maybe it was the Capitol One Vikings
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Post by ArielMermaid on Oct 23, 2018 7:03:12 GMT -6
Was anything stolen? Have they said?
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Oct 23, 2018 7:03:46 GMT -6
Yes, this is my thought too. They didn’t know a kid was there, it was hard for them to kill a kid, whatever. But I think she saw them, cops were called and in a panic, they grabbed her because they hadn’t thought it out. It could have been a home invasion/robbery gone wrong from the jump. They come in, looking to get money and leave or whatever but dad fights back, mom calls cops, etc. Yeah, but I am still thinking it would be more efficient and timely to just shoot her like they shot the parents rather then get her to the car. Especially, if they are panicking, I would think they would just be going on impulse. Deciding to take her seems like it would have required a couple moments of debate or orchestration. The short time in which they were able to commit the murders and escape without being seen makes me feel like this was pre-planned. Like they intended to shoot the parents and abduct her from the get go. This is true too. It’s very strange for sure.
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Pistol
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Post by Pistol on Oct 23, 2018 7:15:07 GMT -6
Tlex I saw the ATV theory too. But apparently people use trail cams around this time of year? So the internet strangers are telling me that something would have been recorded. The door thing is strange. Has it been clarified if door was kicked in, shot in, etc.? I just wonder if it was a rage thing or a means to entrance? I also can’t understand if they had such a beef with someone why no one has any knowledge of it. I haven’t looked on WS yet but yes. This time of year is heavy trail cam usage. And a lot of people check their cams almost daily. I briefly wondered about ATV but then I ruled it out in my mind because I figured a neighbor would have heard it. And I would think after hearing a gun shot and then a 4wheeler in the MOTN would have been suspicious. But now that I’ve typed that out I would probably grumble about someone spotlighting and go back to sleep. Especially if it was a shot gun. Could the sound of an ATV be why the neighbors didn’t think about a gunshot in the middle of the night?
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Pistol
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Post by Pistol on Oct 23, 2018 7:23:31 GMT -6
It’s a possible stereotype, but people in small towns like that don’t use deadbolts on the doors, do they? So kicking in a door could be really easy. When we bought our house the all glass doors on the back of the house had deadbolts but the actual door on the front did not. It made zero sense. I’ve since learned the guy who lived there before us never locked his doors. And actually, come to think of it, I don’t know if I locked our front door last night. My bedroom door is almost always unlocked at night because I get up to let the dog out a million times a night. So I’m going to go with probably mostly accurate. But drugs are invading and people are starting to lock up more.
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McBenny
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Post by McBenny on Oct 23, 2018 7:27:51 GMT -6
Yes but I just can't wrap my head around why they would take her and not just kill her. Obviously drug seeking robbers and murderers don't always make logical decisions but still.. Well... here’s my working theory. The house in an area with a casino and a drug presence. It’s on a main road but it’s also not directly on top of its neighbors. It’s a location that probably hosts people that need quick money for unsavory reasons and the Closs house is an easy target. Someone(s) comes to door and is met by dad. Dad is killed. Mom hears the commotion and barricades herself in bathroom and calls 911. She’s killed. Jayme comes out, or is already out, but at this point murderer(s) see 911 is called. They panic and leave immediately, taking Jayme with them. She is likely not alive. I mean, I could be completely wrong. It just seems weird that the police seem like they have nothing and there’s no rumors emerging. In this scenario, why take her to begin with? She could have just been killed there.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Oct 23, 2018 7:29:57 GMT -6
Well... here’s my working theory. The house in an area with a casino and a drug presence. It’s on a main road but it’s also not directly on top of its neighbors. It’s a location that probably hosts people that need quick money for unsavory reasons and the Closs house is an easy target. Someone(s) comes to door and is met by dad. Dad is killed. Mom hears the commotion and barricades herself in bathroom and calls 911. She’s killed. Jayme comes out, or is already out, but at this point murderer(s) see 911 is called. They panic and leave immediately, taking Jayme with them. She is likely not alive. I mean, I could be completely wrong. It just seems weird that the police seem like they have nothing and there’s no rumors emerging. In this scenario, why take her to begin with? She could have just been killed there. Gun jammed. Didn't bring enough ammo. Panicked knowing a call had been made and couldn't get the shot gun reloaded fast enough.
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