Behavior help for six year old

[Deleted]

I’m at a loss how to parent DS1 at this point. Like it’s to the point I’m ready to just walk away and not come back.

We’ve noticed issues with behavior pretty much since DS2 was born in February. He adores his little brother but any sort of listening and respect for H or I has gone out the window.

We had him tested for ADD/ADHD this summer and the pediatrician does not believe that this is the issue but said we could keep an eye on it.

It’s to the point where H and I don’t agree at all on how tknsiscopene humans get through to him. He’s making it miserable in the house and is affecting our work/social things as well.

I’m working on creating a list of things that he has to do each morning and a chore chart but I’m afraid that it’s not going to be consistent based on past experience. When he doesn’t follow those things I’d like to find a way to make him understand the consequences in a logical way versus H’s idea if just taking everything away at once.

Does anyone have any advice on what worked for their kid?

[regal]

What types of behaviors are we talking about? Aggression? Back talk? Lying?

[trueblue]

I am a big fan of 1 2 3 magic: effective discipline for children 2-12. We started with it after our second was born 8 years ago and Our first child’s behavior went off the rails. And we still use the basic framework today.

[Deleted]

He gets aggressive towards H. Most of the time it’s back talk or straight up not listening to directions. My mom jokes it’s like he doesn’t even know his name when you use it to get his attention.

[hawkward]

What kind of behaviors are we talking about? DS1 went through a painfully obnoxious phase around that age (made worse by the fact that DS2 in contrast was in a particularly pleasant phase), and we had to do a lot of divide and conquer with him, giving each other breaks.

We sat him down for his first "family meeting" and told him he was big enough to start participating in the decision of rules and consequences. We talked about what he thought were reasonable expectations and reasonable consequences. I was pleasantly shocked at how involved he was in this. He had a lot of good ideas, and I was surprised that we had to dial back his suggested consequences a bit. Then we used PECs to make charts for morning expectations and evening expectations, and another consequence one that he could add stickers to to work toward earning a reward.

Having some agency really helped him I think.

The other thing is, I like natural consequences. Help him make consequences that make sense for the action.

[hawkward]

Sept 7, 2018 5:44:29 GMT -6 kbw said:

He gets aggressive towards H. Most of the time it’s back talk or straight up not listening to directions. My mom jokes it’s like he doesn’t even know his name when you use it to get his attention.

I would start off right away with letting him miss out on things. You don't listen when I tell you to put on your shoes, I'm not taking you to soccer practice. That kind of thing. 

For back talking, we use social isolation. You can't speak politely, you can't be around the rest of the family (for a short time).

When the consequence is over, make sure to thoroughly and obviously forgive him. "I'm so glad you're ready to come back and be polite to everyone! We miss you when you have to be alone in your room!" then give him a big hug.

Catch him doing any little thing that is good (even if it's "thank you for using those nice words!" or "thank you for washing your hands!") and make a deal over it. Verbally reward any positive behavior and give him a big hug. Try to hug him at least five times for every scolding. Make that a goal in your head. 

If you call him and he responds appropriately, make a deal out of that too. Get any other caregivers he has on board. Make good behavior easier and more fun. 

[adelbert]

I agree with a lot of what hawkward says. I also feel like I still need some more details. Is he aggressive all the time? Aggressive when you ask him to do something? Is he pleasant at daycare/school? Do teachers have issues with him?

[justbecause]

My oldest son was a mess after ds3 was born. The pediatrician recommended carving out time for just parent and older child since it was coming from feeling left out and everything being “about baby J”.
So he was mean and defiant and ugh.
Otherwise, you’ve got some great ideas here and it will pass.

[calendula]

So, my son turned 6 in July and our daughter was born in March. We have been experiencing a lot of similar issues. The backtalk has eased up slightly as time as passed since DD was born, but in general he struggles to follow directions and although he seems motivated to make good choices (charts, positive rewards, loss of privileges), he gets very frustrated when he is unable to do so. Like, tears.

Our pedi thought ADD/ADHD wasn't an issue, but thought there might be sensory issues at play. We took him for an OT eval and they said they saw some auditory and visual sensory overstimulation, which is causing some praxis issues. His ability to sequence and plan out his responses to stimuli. The OT said he would probably outgrow it over time and learn to manage his behaviors, since he is bright and motivated and doesn't have any motor skill deficits, but that some OT in the short term might give him some tools to make it easier. She gave us some ideas over the summer that have already started to help, and we started weekly OT last week.

That's a super specific dx obviously but since you mentioned getting ready in the morning, maybe its something else to look into. GL. Its so heartbreaking watching your kid struggle.

[Deleted]

For the most part he’s good at school with the other occasional bad day. He died well at daycare most days too. It’s more just when he’s around H and I that these issues crop up. I feel like with me it’s just constant not listening no matter how many times I say something/ re word it. Like this morning he was told at least 7 times they it was not time to be riding his gator and he needed to get in the car. H had to physically put him in the car which resulted in DS1 sobbing and swinging at H. When he calms down he immediately knows what he did wrong and apologizes.

[Deleted]

And I’ll full on admit that I start to lose my cool after repeating myself so many times which is why I’m trying to figure this out. I see a lot of myself as far as bring a very emotional person in him and H does not respond well to that and just tells him to suck it up which makes me mad at H.

[calendula]

Sept 7, 2018 6:38:27 GMT -6 kbw said:

For the most part he’s good at school with the other occasional bad day. He died well at daycare most days too. It’s more just when he’s around H and I that these issues crop up. I feel like with me it’s just constant not listening no matter how many times I say something/ re word it. Like this morning he was told at least 7 times they it was not time to be riding his gator and he needed to get in the car. H had to physically put him in the car which resulted in DS1 sobbing and swinging at H. When he calms down he immediately knows what he did wrong and apologizes.

That's super promising then. DS was struggling at school too, which was hard for him because he HATED being singled out at school for bad behavior, and would come home sobbing about how the other kids had to see him at the time out table. So he was motivated to do well but couldn't get out of his own way. That's what made us think it was above and beyond garden variety behavior issues. If your son is doing well at school, that's a great sign that this may just be a phase (and its totally normal for kids to push it with their parents). 

Still though...he knows that swinging your H is not great but couldn't NOT do it because he wasn't calm. Is he able to regulate his agitation? Do most behavior issues happen when he is agitated? I know with DS, once he is escalated, nothing will get through to him, so the key is working with him on getting/staying calm so he can make better decisions. 

[Minerva]

Sept 7, 2018 6:38:27 GMT -6 kbw said:

For the most part he’s good at school with the other occasional bad day. He died well at daycare most days too. It’s more just when he’s around H and I that these issues crop up. I feel like with me it’s just constant not listening no matter how many times I say something/ re word it. Like this morning he was told at least 7 times they it was not time to be riding his gator and he needed to get in the car. H had to physically put him in the car which resulted in DS1 sobbing and swinging at H. When he calms down he immediately knows what he did wrong and apologizes.

I would take a look at 123 Magic, as suggested by a previous poster. We’ve used it in the past w/DS and our elementary school has also implemented it. W/ his ASD, DS can put up some pretty stubborn/defiant behaviors, especially when he is overwhelmed or anxious. Having a clear discipline plan allows us to put aside our emotions and not react in anger, which only escalated things w/ a defiant kid (and demonstrated the same behaviors we were trying to stop). It keeps DH and me on the same page, which means a lot for my kid who craves consistency.

In general, setting clear expectations, giving immediate natural consequences, and avoiding angry reactionary discipline have helped us a lot w/ DS. We try to set him up to make good choices. We spend a lot of time saying “you need to do x right now, or the consequence will be y.” Then, if he doesn’t do x, y happens right away w/ no other emotional response from us. If he does do x, we give lots of praise, especially if we know it is something difficult or if he had to leave another favored activity.

Good luck. Defiant behavior in kids is so frustrating. It is normal to have an angry reaction to it, but IME, it is counterproductive to react in anger. Having a plan is one of the easiest ways for me to avoid that most of the time.

[adelbert]

I think it's important to deescalate before you get to that point where he is just angry and not listening.

Try and stop repeating yourself. Go up to him once, make eye contact, and then explain the situation; "we're going out to the car in 5 minutes, do you have everything you need?" 5 minutes later if he's not ready simply take him by the hand and walk to the car. No discussions, no anger.

Natural consequences work well in many situations. You might have to think ahead to situations that often occur and what you could do as a natural consequence, they don't always pop up in your head at the time.

Family meetings can be very helpful. For example: I've noticed we're having trouble getting out the door on time in the mornings, why do you think that is? What can we try to fix it? And then making sure that not just you and your H make suggestions but also your son.

Taking short breaks when you feel yourself getting annoyed or angry can also help a bit.

[hawkward]

Sept 7, 2018 6:41:36 GMT -6 kbw said:

And I’ll full on admit that I start to lose my cool after repeating myself so many times which is why I’m trying to figure this out. I see a lot of myself as far as bring a very emotional person in him and H does not respond well to that and just tells him to suck it up which makes me mad at H.

I have to actively stop myself from constantly repeating. This is another thing we discussed with DS1- how many warning were fair. We decided two. I tell him something, then he gets one reminder (two reminders if it's something unusual) before the consequence. It gives me a rule to follow and it gives DS1 an obvious line. Otherwise I fall into the trap of trying to be "nice" and then it ends up being detrimental for both of us. 

[McBenny]

Sept 7, 2018 6:41:36 GMT -6 kbw said:

And I’ll full on admit that I start to lose my cool after repeating myself so many times which is why I’m trying to figure this out. I see a lot of myself as far as bring a very emotional person in him and H does not respond well to that and just tells him to suck it up which makes me mad at H.

I feel this is case by case and no right or wrong. Sometimes there is emotion and sometimes there is manipulation and crying cause you know you acted an ass.

I am not totally against suck it up. It's case by case for me.

[calendula]

Sept 7, 2018 7:15:25 GMT -6 hawkward said:

Sept 7, 2018 6:41:36 GMT -6 kbw said:

And I’ll full on admit that I start to lose my cool after repeating myself so many times which is why I’m trying to figure this out. I see a lot of myself as far as bring a very emotional person in him and H does not respond well to that and just tells him to suck it up which makes me mad at H.

I have to actively stop myself from constantly repeating. This is another thing we discussed with DS1- how many warning were fair. We decided two. I tell him something, then he gets one reminder (two reminders if it's something unusual) before the consequence. It gives me a rule to follow and it gives DS1 an obvious line. Otherwise I fall into the trap of trying to be "nice" and then it ends up being detrimental for both of us. 

This is helpful for us too. DS has said to us WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS YELLING AT ME. Which, lol. But DH said to him once, well, what else can I do after I've told you something many times and you have ignored me? Now when DS needs a reminder to listen, DH will say "Hey, I asked you once. This is your chance to do what you're told before you get in trouble. Now is the time, this is your chance" and DS surprisingly has responded well to that. 

[flamingo]

I really like the work of child psychologist-family/parenting guru Dr. John Rosemond. My BMB will tell you I recommend him all the time and it probably drives them nuts, but he gets right to the heart of issues like this. He has a website with a lot of columns/advice (he also has a nationally syndicated column) but I highly recommend his book The Well-Behaved Child.

We use Rosemond's "strikes" system for our almost 5 y.o., and he's done really well with it. You essentially target a couple of bad behaviors at a time, the child gets X number of 'freebies' (for us it's the first 3 strikes), and then after that each strike results in a loss of privilege. Each day the slate is wiped clean and you start again. For us, the behaviors we worked on first were not listening, and playing too rough with his sister. The strikes remove the emotion from it...if we catch him acting up, there's no yelling/pleading/bargaining. We just say, "That's a strike...you didn't listen when I asked you to put your toys away" and mark it on a whiteboard. Very easy to do and we saw marked improvement in a week or so.

eta: also, things like hitting are a no-go in our home. If he takes a swipe at one of us, he goes straight to his room for an extended period of time. It's pretty rare, but that's a non-negotiable for us. 

[Pizzaslut]

Sept 7, 2018 7:03:03 GMT -6 adelbert said:

I think it's important to deescalate before you get to that point where he is just angry and not listening.

Try and stop repeating yourself. Go up to him once, make eye contact, and then explain the situation; "we're going out to the car in 5 minutes, do you have everything you need?" 5 minutes later if he's not ready simply take him by the hand and walk to the car. No discussions, no anger.

Natural consequences work well in many situations. You might have to think ahead to situations that often occur and what you could do as a natural consequence, they don't always pop up in your head at the time.


Taking short breaks when you feel yourself getting annoyed or angry can also help a bit.

These are all excellent points. What is described happens A LOT with my 3 year old. H & I sometimes lose our cool but I am really trying to give him 2 chances. On the 3rd, I will go and grab his hand and start walking. I have had to physically pick him up and put him in the car or put him in the bathroom/highchair/etc.

I realized that my anger and loud voice was just making him louder and angrier. I need to keep myself calm so he will react in a calm way.

[wedding]

Sept 7, 2018 7:03:03 GMT -6 adelbert said:

I think it's important to deescalate before you get to that point where he is just angry and not listening.

Try and stop repeating yourself. Go up to him once, make eye contact, and then explain the situation; "we're going out to the car in 5 minutes, do you have everything you need?" 5 minutes later if he's not ready simply take him by the hand and walk to the car. No discussions, no anger.

Natural consequences work well in many situations. You might have to think ahead to situations that often occur and what you could do as a natural consequence, they don't always pop up in your head at the time.

Family meetings can be very helpful. For example: I've noticed we're having trouble getting out the door on time in the mornings, why do you think that is? What can we try to fix it? And then making sure that not just you and your H make suggestions but also your son.

Taking short breaks when you feel yourself getting annoyed or angry can also help a bit.

Taking my son by the hand in this scenario would cause immediate escalation on his part. I have had the most luck telling him we are leaving and walking out. He follows fairly quickly once he thinks we are going without him.

DS is almost 5 and is pretty good but engaging in his outbursts get us nowhere. He is not someone that goes to timeout quietly and will try to knock the door down in his room. For us, ignoring the behavior and him until he stops and apologizes works best. He doesn't hit but if he did I would walk away and pretend he wasn't there until he apologized and we could talk it out calmly. It took a while for me to be able to walk away but it is most effective for us.

[helenahhandbasket]

I don't want to make light of your feelings, but your description of his behavior sounds fairly typical. I have a six year old and I find myself constantly repeating myself- I start out calm but it tends to quickly escalate. I absolutely attribute my current short fuse with other personal frustrations I have going on in my life-- be they work related or related to finances. When I feel myself losing control at a fairly minor annoyance with DD (just calling it that in my situation) I really, really try to step away talk myself down. Like I will physically leave and maybe step into another room for a moment. It doesn't always work and I have apologized to her many times for yelling.

My advice would be to take a step back a bit and really evaluate what is causing you to have the extreme reaction to his behavior- in the OP it sounds like you are 100% fed up and this is not just a small vent. It might help to identify other frustrations that could be causing you to losing your cool and feeling overwhelmed.

Again please just take this FWIW- I am only basing this on what you have posted here.

[sunnysideup]

I’m not suggesting to reward bad behavior but I’ve found that when one of my boys is going through a rough phase with behavior that one on one time can also help. Maybe one specific day of the week you go with just him to the park or to something like that. It wasn’t a natural feeling to want to do extra things with the boys when they were in these phases because the bad behavior obviously made me stress and worry about how they would act. But I really saw a difference and it also helped ME mentally to see him being good and having fun.

You’ve gotten really good advice about how to address the behaviors at the time. I had to be very consistent. Only remind a certain number of times. Clear consequences. I’ve also found a morning routine chart helps with DS1 who is turning 6 this month.

[topangalawrence]

I work with young children helping shape behavior, and this sounds mostly age appropriate/strong-willed child. I think consistency and clear expectations, with some choice could be helpful. So for large tasks like “get ready” or “clean your room”, break it down to specific things with choice - “would you like to get dressed or brush your teeth first?”. It sounds like transitioning from preferred to non- preferred tasks is challenging, so I always set a timer, and allow for kiddos to ask for 3 one more minutes once the timer goes off. It gives them control without a power struggle. I cannot stress positive specific praise enough...get sloppy generous with that shit - “I love your kind words”, “I love the way you got right in the car when the timer went off. You earned some bonus tablet time tonight”. To shape behavior, you should give a minimum of 5 positive comments, for every one corrective comment. I hope this helps

[thechickencoop]

Sept 7, 2018 6:41:36 GMT -6 kbw said:

And I’ll full on admit that I start to lose my cool after repeating myself so many times which is why I’m trying to figure this out. I see a lot of myself as far as bring a very emotional person in him and H does not respond well to that and just tells him to suck it up which makes me mad at H.

I could have written this word for word. I have struggled my entire life with anxiety (managed as an adult with meds) and I can so clearly see the same exact behaviors in DS1 (also 6). It's like a mirror and it makes me so, so sad. I try to give him so much support when he's upset because that was something I never ever got. He'll get worked up to the point of struggling to breathe and we just sit and hug.

BUT he pushes my fucking buttons like never before. Like DS2 is almost 1. He has been in our home for almost a year and every night it's the same thing for DS1 - go get ready for bed and BE QUIET. And every night he does SOMETHING. Be it yelling for us downstairs, messing around in the hallway and running into a wall, singing loudly in the bathroom, SOMETHING. Like, when do you get it through your head??

We have the repeating issues too and have the same response. Both H and I lose our cool after so many times. It's a work in progress.

One thing I think is kind of awesome, I found out at back to school night that in every classroom they have a "chill zone". It's basically a chair and desk surrounded by like those presentation boards, so kind of private. They have a sand timer and then things like fidget spinners, sensory bottles, etc. The purpose is to give them a space to go to on their own (not being sent there as time out or punishment) to literally chill and take a breather. We do this a lot at home too and while he definitely doesn't have the same issues at school I think it's nice to reinforce that sometimes you need that.

[sherminator]

We have a "peace cubby" at daycare. a chill out place that's not a time out zone. Just a place you can go gather thoughts with some soft comfort items and a essential oil diffuser nearby. It helps.

[McBenny]

Sept 7, 2018 18:19:51 GMT -6 sherminator said:

We have a "peace cubby" at daycare. a chill out place that's not a time out zone. Just a place you can go gather thoughts with some soft comfort items and a essential oil diffuser nearby. It helps.

this is nice. However whenever you implement a step away for a child it's essentially a time out. Call it whatever.

[McBenny]

I have a team of child psychologists and psychiatrists at my disposal through work. So it's why I ask so many questions. I literally evaluate children all day but whatever.

No aggressive behavior is not normal in general. At can't speak more to it cause I don't know exactly what he's doing.

[Deleted]

I wanted to say thank you all for your tips/insight. We sat down and came up with some family rules which seem to have helped and we’ve taken some of your suggestions into that. We’re still working on the morning and bedtime but things are going better.