Risscaboobs
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Post by Risscaboobs on Jun 15, 2017 11:18:28 GMT -6
Here is a thread to begin a discussion once you have finished June's book, "The Handmaid's Tale". Toward the end of the month, I'll post some more discussion points, if needed.
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Peekaru
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Post by Peekaru on Jun 16, 2017 11:20:04 GMT -6
- think Atwood did a wonderful job of instilling the paranoia and boredom of a Handmaids life into the book. It was totally captivating.
- It was also interesting how she felt about her own situation, how far she bought into it.
And WTF there are tourists just wandering around? I was appalled at that.
While I understand that handmaids are supposed to be celebrated, I continue to think that they are actually being punished for some past issue.
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Taitai
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Post by Taitai on Jun 17, 2017 0:43:10 GMT -6
- And WTF there are tourists just wandering around? I was appalled at that. I think this is not too different from the tour groups who travel to North Korea in today's time...an opportunity for individuals from open societies to have a look into the "nice and manicured" area of a totally closed off, inhumane, brutal, and totalitarian regime. How fun/interesting it must be for the tourists to visit such a "strange place" - not like they have to deal with the realities of living with the paranoia, brainwashing, and horrific human rights abuses that North Koreans face on a daily basis. So I guess that part of the book wasn't too much of a shock for me...but yes, it is appalling that things like this happen today - in the real world. There are other real-world examples that come to mind, but tourism to North Korea seems the most obvious comparison to me.
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Taitai
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Post by Taitai on Jun 17, 2017 1:31:42 GMT -6
I liked this book a lot, and I found it very thought provoking. I definitely think it is one of those books that should be required reading for all high school students (I know it already is in some places), just because a lot of the issues it addresses continue to be very relevant to our current times. That is a real testament to the staying power of Atwood's writing (as she wrote this over 30 yrs ago) and her impressive insight into how darker elements of human nature can threaten progressive, free, secular, and democratic societies.
As someone who lives overseas in a developing country and has traveled all over the world - I think the most impactful (and frightening) thing about this book was how she drew on real world history/occurrences/practices to create the dystopian world of The Republic of Gilead. While reading, I immediately saw similarities to how people live today in North Korea, ISIS/Boko Haram held territories, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the fundamentalist Mormon/Warren Jeffs-like cults in the U.S. southwest, and even The Philippines to some extent (the proliferation of extreme vigilante groups who carry out their own "justice" with no due process, rule of law, or consequences).
It's tempting to read this and think...nah...this could never happen to America, but when the book draws so many parallels to what is happening today in other parts of the world, I think it's hard to shrug off as some totally out of the realm of possibility scenario. I mean, 10 years ago you could go to Damascus and see women wearing sleeveless sundresses, drinking cappuccinos at sidewalk cafes. Now it's a war zone with security checkpoints everywhere, armed men visible literally everywhere, all women in Abayas and head scarves (and with male escorts), hardly any business/work opportunities, and definitely no more Parisian-like sidewalk cafes...All changed in a manner of less than 10 yrs.
I had read in an interview that Atwood said there was not one thing in the book that hadn't happened in real-world modern day history. Knowing that made reading the book all that much more impactful to me - because it gives the reader a true warning of what can happen to our "free" societies if we don't fight to protect ourselves from authoritarianism and religious extremism.
So, yeah - I really liked the book and found it fascinating. I liked seeing the world through Offred's eyes as well, which drew me into her personal story. Will definitely try to get DH to read this one.
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kclause
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Post by kclause on Jun 17, 2017 6:58:54 GMT -6
I liked this book a lot, and I found it very thought provoking. I definitely think it is one of those books that should be required reading for all high school students (I know it already is in some places), just because a lot of the issues it addresses continue to be very relevant to our current times. That is a real testament to the staying power of Atwood's writing (as she wrote this over 30 yrs ago) and her impressive insight into how darker elements of human nature can threaten progressive, free, secular, and democratic societies. As someone who lives overseas in a developing country and has traveled all over the world - I think the most impactful (and frightening) thing about this book was how she drew on real world history/occurrences/practices to create the dystopian world of The Republic of Gilead. While reading, I immediately saw similarities to how people live today in North Korea, ISIS/Boko Haram held territories, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the fundamentalist Mormon/Warren Jeffs-like cults in the U.S. southwest, and even The Philippines to some extent (the proliferation of extreme vigilante groups who carry out their own "justice" with no due process, rule of law, or consequences). It's tempting to read this and think...nah...this could never happen to America, but when the book draws so many parallels to what is happening today in other parts of the world, I think it's hard to shrug off as some totally out of the realm of possibility scenario. I mean, 10 years ago you could go to Damascus and see women wearing sleeveless sundresses, drinking cappuccinos at sidewalk cafes. Now it's a war zone with security checkpoints everywhere, armed men visible literally everywhere, all women in Abayas and head scarves (and with male escorts), hardly any business/work opportunities, and definitely no more Parisian-like sidewalk cafes...All changed in a manner of less than 10 yrs. I had read in an interview that Atwood said there was not one thing in the book that hadn't happened in real-world modern day history. Knowing that made reading the book all that much more impactful to me - because it gives the reader a true warning of what can happen to our "free" societies if we don't fight to protect ourselves from authoritarianism and religious extremism. So, yeah - I really liked the book and found it fascinating. I liked seeing the world through Offred's eyes as well, which drew me into her personal story. Will definitely try to get DH to read this one. This. It really got me thinking about what America could be like one day. The fact that she mentioned several issues that America and other parts of the world are dealing with today, only she wrote them 30 years ago, almost had a spooky effect on me.
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kclause
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Post by kclause on Jun 17, 2017 7:00:39 GMT -6
- think Atwood did a wonderful job of instilling the paranoia and boredom of a Handmaids life into the book. It was totally captivating. - It was also interesting how she felt about her own situation, how far she bought into it. And WTF there are tourists just wandering around? I was appalled at that. While I understand that handmaids are supposed to be celebrated, I continue to think that they are actually being punished for some past issue. Yes. The boredom really drew me in. It was driving me crazy just to read it, so I couldn't imagine living it.
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jewel
Silver
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Post by jewel on Jun 17, 2017 7:03:26 GMT -6
So I think I may be the dissenting voice, but this was just not my favorite. I think it's awesome how a book from so long ago can resonate now, and I think this is an important story but taking the current political climate out of the equation it just wasn't my favorite story.
I would have really liked more background on why so many people were infertile and just either more of a ramp up to what happened or a happier ending (I know that's not the point).
I can't stand watching/thinking about bad things happening to kids, so there was an aspect of that as well.
It's been a long time since I've read it but Brave New World is my favorite book in this genre and I didn't fee as pulled into the world in The Handmaid's Tale as I have with other books.
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Taitai
Opal
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Post by Taitai on Jun 18, 2017 3:37:56 GMT -6
jewel It was really hard for me to read the parts about children getting taken away from their parents - particularly when Offred was reminiscing about past times with her daughter. I teared up a bit even just thinking about it now. I can see why that might cause some to have issues with the book - as it can get very, very heavy. I also often appreciate it when books tie up loose ends and offer solutions to previous mysteries or unknowns in the plot line. I do, however, have an idea about why the author choose not to provide more background on the infertility issue or what ultimately ended up happening to Offred. My view is that when writing this book, Atwood was being very intentional to present as realistic of a story as possible (in this dystopian world she had created), which would enable the reader to really empathize with Offred. I think that's why the author chose to write the entire book in first person voice, as she wanted to draw the reader into the perspective of an "average" woman who was caught up in this horrible societal disaster. The more we empathize with Offred, the more horrified we (Atwood's audience) become with the themes of authoritarianism, sexual repression, religious extremism, sexism, bigotry, etc. So, if the author wants us to truly connect and see this world through Offred's eyes, the author is also going to really have to focus on Offred's perspective and limit the reader's knowledge of everything that led up to the events of the book (infertility, Sons of Gilead's rise to power, etc.), everything currently happening outside the walls of Offed's protected little city, as well as what will happen in the future - since Offred herself is not omniscient and could not reasonably be expected to have complete details on all of those things. After looking at it this way, I was able to better accept and appreciate why there were gaps in the story, and why everything was not nicely wrapped up in the end. I guess I think Atwood intentionally sacrificed some plot in order to draw us closer to/empathize with the main character, in an effort to make the book have a lasting, real-world impact on the reader. I do see your point though - if this type of writing style is not to your taste, the author's decisions in these areas might leave you wanting more or feeling unfulfilled story wise.
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jewel
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Post by jewel on Jun 18, 2017 6:52:32 GMT -6
Taitai I think that's a really good point, and I hadn't thought about the reason for using first person. I guess for me it made it harder to connect to the world/the story, just "knowing" one person. I am trying to think of another book I've read that is first person narrative, but the only thing that comes to mind is "Angus, Thongs and Full frontal snogging" which is obviously not a good comparison. Lol
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Taitai
Opal
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Post by Taitai on Jun 18, 2017 7:02:35 GMT -6
Taitai I think that's a really good point, and I hadn't thought about the reason for using first person. I guess for me it made it harder to connect to the world/the story, just "knowing" one person. I am trying to think of another book I've read that is first person narrative, but the only thing that comes to mind is "Angus, Thongs and Full frontal snogging" which is obviously not a good comparison. Lol 😂😂 Yes, probably not a good comparison. Lol. I'm intrigued now (is there an Angus beef angle?), but too afraid to Google. 😅
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NamasteBirches
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Post by NamasteBirches on Jun 18, 2017 7:59:54 GMT -6
- And WTF there are tourists just wandering around? I was appalled at that. I think this is not too different from the tour groups who travel to North Korea in today's time...an opportunity for individuals from open societies to have a look into the "nice and manicured" area of a totally closed off, inhumane, brutal, and totalitarian regime. How fun/interesting it must be for the tourists to visit such a "strange place" - not like they have to deal with the realities of living with the paranoia, brainwashing, and horrific human rights abuses that North Koreans face on a daily basis. So I guess that part of the book wasn't too much of a shock for me...but yes, it is appalling that things like this happen today - in the real world. There are other real-world examples that come to mind, but tourism to North Korea seems the most obvious comparison to me. wow I did not even think people tour North Korea.. like wtf
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NamasteBirches
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Post by NamasteBirches on Jun 18, 2017 8:00:54 GMT -6
And WTF there are tourists just wandering around? I was appalled at that. same, this was so disturbing.
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NamasteBirches
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Post by NamasteBirches on Jun 18, 2017 8:01:15 GMT -6
FTR, I'm not even halfway done yet
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jewel
Silver
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Post by jewel on Jun 18, 2017 8:16:15 GMT -6
Taitai I think that's a really good point, and I hadn't thought about the reason for using first person. I guess for me it made it harder to connect to the world/the story, just "knowing" one person. I am trying to think of another book I've read that is first person narrative, but the only thing that comes to mind is "Angus, Thongs and Full frontal snogging" which is obviously not a good comparison. Lol 😂😂 Yes, probably not a good comparison. Lol. I'm intrigued now (is there an Angus beef angle?), but too afraid to Google. 😅 No it's a book for young teens. Totally safe to google. Lol
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Post by bearfootz on Jun 19, 2017 7:53:42 GMT -6
Taitai I think that's a really good point, and I hadn't thought about the reason for using first person. I guess for me it made it harder to connect to the world/the story, just "knowing" one person. I am trying to think of another book I've read that is first person narrative, but the only thing that comes to mind is "Angus, Thongs and Full frontal snogging" which is obviously not a good comparison. Lol Anne Frank's "Diary of a Young Girl" comes to mind. I was reminded of that when Offred's story ended so abruptly - leaving us to wonder what became of her and if she was ever reunited with her daughter. And again when the lecturer references the discovery of the tapes, similar to the discovery of Anne's diary.
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Jun 19, 2017 10:14:30 GMT -6
jewel, I thought the infertility was related to some kind of catastrophic chemical or nuclear attack. A few times it was alluded to that something major had happened- the land and water were also some how chemically or radioactively tarnished.
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byjove
Ruby
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Post by byjove on Jun 19, 2017 10:20:09 GMT -6
I'm 3/4 of the way through. I am usually very affected by some of the triggery issues presented in the book, but Offred's detachment and almost numbness to the topic I think has made it more fascinating than upsetting for me (I am also listening to it and Claire Danes is the narrator, so maybe that somehow makes it easier too?) I keep thinking could we really turn into such a society? Surely there is something that would stop it, right? We aren't that far gone yet, right?????
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Nymeria
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Post by Nymeria on Jun 19, 2017 10:28:01 GMT -6
Taitai I think that's a really good point, and I hadn't thought about the reason for using first person. I guess for me it made it harder to connect to the world/the story, just "knowing" one person. I am trying to think of another book I've read that is first person narrative, but the only thing that comes to mind is "Angus, Thongs and Full frontal snogging" which is obviously not a good comparison. Lol You are the first person I've ever 'met' that has also read that book. I don't remember much about it but I remember enjoying it. I also had a hard time with the way HMT was written. I don't need a happy ending wrapped up in a pretty bow, but I had a hard time with how the book just ended. I really wanted to know what happened to Offred.
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Nymeria
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Post by Nymeria on Jun 19, 2017 10:30:03 GMT -6
jewel , I thought the infertility was related to some kind of catastrophic chemical or nuclear attack. A few times it was alluded to that something major had happened- the land and water were also some how chemically or radioactively tarnished. That was my assumption as well. They do reference people in the colonies cleaning up radioactive spills.
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Post by grumpycat on Jun 19, 2017 10:40:56 GMT -6
Full disclosure ... I watched the Hulu series before reading the book.
I enjoyed the book quite a bit. I was intrigued by Offred's relationship with her mom and do really wish that they went into that in the show. Perhaps in the next season. It seemed to really form her identity and to me, commented on WHY she was more "complacent" with the takeover. I thought it was very interesting that Offred specifically noted that she did not participate in the marches, but in the show she did.
I related significantly to Offred when she discussed Luke's reaction to her losing her job/money being cut off. She comments on how she felt herself shrinking away from him and how he was already beginning to patronize her, just like "they" wanted. I did not pick up on those same feelings in the show and that really bothered me. I knew that she was resistant, but it was always Moira who was the radical one.
Also, I teared up when Luke "took care of" the cat. Offred was already numb by that point.
Overall, I'd recommend it. I think the Hulu series does a decent job filling in the gaps in the story line. The gaps made sense to me for the reasons others have already stated. Offred is recounting her own experience/knowledge. She doesn't fully know the origin of Gilead or what exactly happened to create the infertility issues.
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jewel
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Post by jewel on Jun 19, 2017 11:45:28 GMT -6
jewel , I thought the infertility was related to some kind of catastrophic chemical or nuclear attack. A few times it was alluded to that something major had happened- the land and water were also some how chemically or radioactively tarnished. That was my assumption as well. They do reference people in the colonies cleaning up radioactive spills. Interesting makes sense... byjovemy mind went to more of a global warming space, but I guess that I think about that a lot more bc of my work anyway... but I wasn't sure.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 11:47:14 GMT -6
I read this book about a month ago and could not put it down. I'm looking forward to watching the show and seeing how it plays out onscreen.
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Post by bearfootz on Jun 19, 2017 14:20:22 GMT -6
I'm 3/4 of the way through. I am usually very affected by some of the triggery issues presented in the book, but Offred's detachment and almost numbness to the topic I think has made it more fascinating than upsetting for me (I am also listening to it and Claire Danes is the narrator, so maybe that somehow makes it easier too?) I keep thinking could we really turn into such a society? Surely there is something that would stop it, right? We aren't that far gone yet, right????? I wasn't sure if Offred's detachment was mainly a coping mechanism - or a combination of that and being brainwashed. She mentioned that she thinks she was drugged after capture and that she felt like she was being drugged on more than one occasion. During the first part of the book the references to her daughter really bothered me, but I agree that as it went on I found myself more wrapped up in what was going to happen and how it would play out vs. focusing on the past trauma.
One difference between now and the time the book was written is that now there is the factor of social media, internet, emails etc. I would like to think that the ability to spread knowledge more easily and rapidly would prevent such a thing. However, it seems we've also become more immune to troubling news - or even avoid it so that we can live in ignorant bliss.
As far as the foreign tourists - it made me think of how there are so many injustices in the world now that do not cause us as a country to limit trade or deter our residents from travelling. The handmaid's encounters with the tourists that were asking them questions also reminded me of how visitors flock to Amish villages - as if they are a novelty item.
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raelynn
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Post by raelynn on Jun 19, 2017 14:53:41 GMT -6
I read this book about a month ago and could not put it down. I'm looking forward to watching the show and seeing how it plays out onscreen. The show is so good! It's one of those rare occasions where the screen adaptation doesn't disappoint.
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Taitai
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Post by Taitai on Jun 19, 2017 19:44:43 GMT -6
bearfootz I thought the same exact thing about the book's similarities to the Anne Frank's diary. grumpycat I also found the relationship between Offred and her mom to be really interesting. I think the aspect of how the ideals of feminism and a "woman focused society" were twisted to actually oppress women was also fascinating. The fact that the "Aunts" and other women (like Serena Joy) were actively involved in enforcing the awful treatment of women was depressing, but not surprising. In the end, you also see how Offred's mom and Serena Joy end up as victims to the society they helped create/bring about. Interesting twist.
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byjove
Ruby
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Post by byjove on Jun 20, 2017 7:26:15 GMT -6
I'm 3/4 of the way through. I am usually very affected by some of the triggery issues presented in the book, but Offred's detachment and almost numbness to the topic I think has made it more fascinating than upsetting for me (I am also listening to it and Claire Danes is the narrator, so maybe that somehow makes it easier too?) I keep thinking could we really turn into such a society? Surely there is something that would stop it, right? We aren't that far gone yet, right????? I wasn't sure if Offred's detachment was mainly a coping mechanism - or a combination of that and being brainwashed. She mentioned that she thinks she was drugged after capture and that she felt like she was being drugged on more than one occasion. During the first part of the book the references to her daughter really bothered me, but I agree that as it went on I found myself more wrapped up in what was going to happen and how it would play out vs. focusing on the past trauma.
One difference between now and the time the book was written is that now there is the factor of social media, internet, emails etc. I would like to think that the ability to spread knowledge more easily and rapidly would prevent such a thing. However, it seems we've also become more immune to troubling news - or even avoid it so that we can live in ignorant bliss.
As far as the foreign tourists - it made me think of how there are so many injustices in the world now that do not cause us as a country to limit trade or deter our residents from travelling. The handmaid's encounters with the tourists that were asking them questions also reminded me of how visitors flock to Amish villages - as if they are a novelty item.
You make some really good points. And I had forgotten about social media. The book seems so relevant and current that I forget it was written 30 years ago. Who do you guys think she is telling the story to? That is what is currently on my mind. I know she ponders what a story is, and by thinking of an audience she is creating an audience... I feel like it reads like is talking to someone (herself?) more so than wrote it down (maybe someone else transcribed?).
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Nymeria
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Post by Nymeria on Jun 20, 2017 11:20:50 GMT -6
I wasn't sure if Offred's detachment was mainly a coping mechanism - or a combination of that and being brainwashed. She mentioned that she thinks she was drugged after capture and that she felt like she was being drugged on more than one occasion. During the first part of the book the references to her daughter really bothered me, but I agree that as it went on I found myself more wrapped up in what was going to happen and how it would play out vs. focusing on the past trauma.
One difference between now and the time the book was written is that now there is the factor of social media, internet, emails etc. I would like to think that the ability to spread knowledge more easily and rapidly would prevent such a thing. However, it seems we've also become more immune to troubling news - or even avoid it so that we can live in ignorant bliss.
As far as the foreign tourists - it made me think of how there are so many injustices in the world now that do not cause us as a country to limit trade or deter our residents from travelling. The handmaid's encounters with the tourists that were asking them questions also reminded me of how visitors flock to Amish villages - as if they are a novelty item.
You make some really good points. And I had forgotten about social media. The book seems so relevant and current that I forget it was written 30 years ago. Who do you guys think she is telling the story to? That is what is currently on my mind. I know she ponders what a story is, and by thinking of an audience she is creating an audience... I feel like it reads like is talking to someone (herself?) more so than wrote it down (maybe someone else transcribed?). At the end they mention finding tapes. My thought was that she may have been telling the story to record it, not necessarily to someone else.
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byjove
Ruby
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Post by byjove on Jun 20, 2017 11:25:32 GMT -6
You make some really good points. And I had forgotten about social media. The book seems so relevant and current that I forget it was written 30 years ago. Who do you guys think she is telling the story to? That is what is currently on my mind. I know she ponders what a story is, and by thinking of an audience she is creating an audience... I feel like it reads like is talking to someone (herself?) more so than wrote it down (maybe someone else transcribed?). At the end they mention finding tapes. My thought was that she may have been telling the story to record it, not necessarily to someone else. Gotcha! I guess I should have waited to finish the book before asking... but at least I was on the right track
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Post by oreobitsy on Jun 20, 2017 15:11:20 GMT -6
I read this many years ago, but did a refresh for this book club. It feels more relevant in these days than even ten years ago. While I'd hope there is enough influence from social media and internet, I do see how a catastrophic event could cause chaos and limiting of freedoms on various groups of people. Because of that, I had a hard time reading it, even though I felt it was a good book.
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Post by cdnfroggy on Jun 20, 2017 16:12:09 GMT -6
I really enjoyed this book, but did struggle a bit with the slow pace at times. Like others said though, the slow pace/"boring" parts of it do help amp up the feeling of eeriness (for me) because Offred lives in this horrible time, but there's nothing she can do about it. I would like to know what else is going on in the world at that time (clearly the world knows what's going on to an extent as there are tourists there) and how it can be ignored. I can see something like this maybe happening one day, but not to the extreme shown in the book; as previously mentioned, I would hope that social media would actually help avoid this because I feel like it would be harder to get away with it with everyone watching. The religious overtones are not unfathomable to me and I can see how certain people would come to believe in those thoughts. Anyways, I'm rambling, so I'll quit now. I do look forward to reading more of her novels though!
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