addymac
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Post by addymac on Jul 22, 2018 21:27:28 GMT -6
Guys, I need help. I’m really struggling over here.
N has rarely STTN. he’ll do it on occasion to let us know he *can* but it never repeats itself until another week or two later. He used to wake up, eat a full bottle (4-6oz), then go to sleep quickly, 2-3x / night. We had weaned down to 1, maybe 2 wake ups per night with one feeding of ~3oz and then back to bed.
Now things are shit. He won’t go down if I try to lay him back down in crib, will scream bloody murder. He’ll fall asleep in my arms and be knocked the fuck out and the second I try to move him into the crib he wakes up screaming and I have to start all over again. This past week and a half has been the absolute worst it’s ever been. He’s waking up 3-5x / night, as soon as an hour after bedtime. He’s eating a ton overnight- the other night he ate 10 oz overnight! He won’t let me put him back in his crib without going totally apeshit. I even tried to just let him cry it out and an hour later at 3am he was still screaming his head off. So I’ve resorted to sleeping with him on the futon in his room and I can’t handle it anymore. My sleep is shit. My body aches bc I haven’t opened the futon, so it’s like sleeping on a couch, and I’m so exhausted from getting so little sleep. (DH had surgery last week and he can’t lift anything for the next two+ weeks over 20lbs and N is 26+ lbs, so it’s all on me for the last 10 days.)
How do you guys tackle MOTN wake ups? He normally goes to sleep initially just fine and on his own after we do our bedtime routine but this week it has been getting progressively harder and harder and I’m at my wits’ end. What do I do in the MOTN? just let him cry it out? I don’t know if I have it in me to listen to him cry for an hour+ at 3 in the morning.
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Post by teachermomtobe on Jul 23, 2018 6:12:42 GMT -6
How old is he? What’s the full bedtime routine? What’s his daily sleep schedule like including naps?
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addymac
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Post by addymac on Jul 23, 2018 6:44:24 GMT -6
How old is he? What’s the full bedtime routine? What’s his daily sleep schedule like including naps? Sorry I should have included more info. He’s 11mo. Full bedtime routine is bath (if bath night), then toothbrush, hair comb, get two jokes and then say good night to Alexa, pjs on, light and sound machine on (white noise, low orange light on Hatch), bottle, 5 bedtime books, goodnight kisses, in crib put sleep sack on, lights off as we give last kiss goodnight, tuck his 2 loveys on either side of him, and walk out. We had gotten to a point where he would then roll over and within 10min be asleep, minimal crying, usually he’d just be rolling around for a little bit just doing his thing and then would fall asleep. That’s also gone to shit this week despite us doing the same routine. Daily naps: He’s been transitioning to two instead of three. Usually: wake up around 7. will do a good two hour nap from 10:30/11 - 12/1. Then his second nap is usually around 4/5 and depending on how late it starts we either let him get up on his own or wake him up by 6ish. He usually doesn’t do more than an hour though bc he always wakes up. Bedtime is around 9/9:30, 8:30 if he had a really shitty nap and is really non-negotiable because with our jobs we don’t get him til 8 some days (DH most days) and want to spend a little time with him. |
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Post by requiressnacks on Jul 23, 2018 7:05:19 GMT -6
addymac , that's tough, especially with your schedules! Have you tried to let him cry for a bit in the crib? I know CIO is always controversial, but what would happen if you let him cry for like 5 minutes? ETA - nevermind, I just re-read your post. Sorry. I have no good advice, except maybe more food? We were totally off bottles by 12 months so maybe that could be it... and omg to 5 bedtime books!
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Jul 23, 2018 7:05:20 GMT -6
How old is he? What’s the full bedtime routine? What’s his daily sleep schedule like including naps? Sorry I should have included more info. He’s 11mo. Full bedtime routine is bath (if bath night), then toothbrush, hair comb, get two jokes and then say good night to Alexa, pjs on, light and sound machine on (white noise, low orange light on Hatch), bottle, 5 bedtime books, goodnight kisses, in crib put sleep sack on, lights off as we give last kiss goodnight, tuck his 2 loveys on either side of him, and walk out. We had gotten to a point where he would then roll over and within 10min be asleep, minimal crying, usually he’d just be rolling around for a little bit just doing his thing and then would fall asleep. That’s also gone to shit this week despite us doing the same routine. Daily naps: He’s been transitioning to two instead of three. Usually: wake up around 7. will do a good two hour nap from 10:30/11 - 12/1. Then his second nap is usually around 4/5 and depending on how late it starts we either let him get up on his own or wake him up by 6ish. He usually doesn’t do more than an hour though bc he always wakes up. Bedtime is around 9/9:30, 8:30 if he had a really shitty nap and is really non-negotiable because with our jobs we don’t get him til 8 some days (DH most days) and want to spend a little time with him. This made me laugh. Also, I think I've brushed my kid's hair like twice in his life. Hmm. I wonder if the night time bottle is too close to bedtime, although I see that he is up for about 10 minutes after being put down so maybe not. I've always heard that it should be 20-30 minutes before bed, so I might try moving it earlier into the routine. We (try to) nurse before bath. Otherwise, I don't have a lot of advice because we are going through a rough patch ourselves and J has slept through the night all of one time (just this past Thursday while traveling) in his life at 14 months. He still wakes to nurse around 5AM, which I was fine with as long as he goes back down until a more reasonable time, but recently that has been a struggle and I'm not sure what to do about it either. When he was waking more frequently, we weaned off the night time feedings one at a time by decreasing it slowly over time. It wasn't a quick process but it did work eventually and we've been down to the one 5AM feeding for a little while. Once I weaned off a feeding, I didn't turn back, even if he would wake up randomly before the 5AM feeding, I would either let him cry or go in and pick him up to soothe or rub his back or whatever. Is he teething? Growth spurt? How's he doing with solids? Can you try to get more food into him during the day? Does he drink water? Has it been hot where you are? I have noticed J waking up from naps super cranky and thirsty lately. It's so tough, hang in there. In the meantime, if you are going to keep sleeping with him on the futon, I would at least open it up and try to get a little more comfortable. |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Jul 23, 2018 7:07:39 GMT -6
addymac , that's tough, especially with your schedules! Have you tried to let him cry for a bit in the crib? I know CIO is always controversial, but what would happen if you let him cry for like 5 minutes? ETA - nevermind, I just re-read your post. Sorry. I have no good advice. and omg to 5 bedtime books! They're short books though, right? We probably sometimes do that many... but it is probably too much. |
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Post by requiressnacks on Jul 23, 2018 7:09:09 GMT -6
addymac , that's tough, especially with your schedules! Have you tried to let him cry for a bit in the crib? I know CIO is always controversial, but what would happen if you let him cry for like 5 minutes? ETA - nevermind, I just re-read your post. Sorry. I have no good advice. and omg to 5 bedtime books! They're short books though, right? We probably sometimes do that many... but it is probably too much. We do two, but I have two kids so they each pick one out. Hey - if you have the time, reading is good! |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Jul 23, 2018 7:14:37 GMT -6
They're short books though, right? We probably sometimes do that many... but it is probably too much. We do two, but I have two kids so they each pick one out. Hey - if you have the time, reading is good! We still mostly read short board books. Or sometimes I'll read a longer book then a couple short ones. He was doing really well at bedtimes for a while but we're going through a shaky patch so I'm afraid to cut anything short. I look forward to a short and sweet bedtime routine. And not freaking out at bedtime. And not waking up at 5AM. He's a work in progress..... |
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cmb
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Post by cmb on Jul 23, 2018 8:59:16 GMT -6
I have hair pats and controversial advice
Here’s my advice- wean him completely from the bottle and let him scream however long he needs to. Ear plugs will be your friend so will turning off the monitor. He needs to break the bottle association and learn to sleep. Like I said, controversial advice, but it works.
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cmb
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Post by cmb on Jul 23, 2018 9:01:03 GMT -6
We do two, but I have two kids so they each pick one out. Hey - if you have the time, reading is good! We still mostly read short board books. Or sometimes I'll read a longer book then a couple short ones. He was doing really well at bedtimes for a while but we're going through a shaky patch so I'm afraid to cut anything short. I look forward to a short and sweet bedtime routine. And not freaking out at bedtime. And not waking up at 5AM. He's a work in progress..... DS1’s routine has started to get longer. I miss the short one story routine |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Jul 23, 2018 9:03:17 GMT -6
We only read books at bedtime and naptime. Should we be reading more at other times?
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cmb
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Post by cmb on Jul 23, 2018 9:13:50 GMT -6
We only read books at bedtime and naptime. Should we be reading more at other times? Should? Yes. Do you have to? No. Does it make a difference in speech? Supposedly but not my experience |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Jul 23, 2018 10:09:11 GMT -6
We only read books at bedtime and naptime. Should we be reading more at other times? Should? Yes. Do you have to? No. Does it make a difference in speech? Supposedly but not my experience He does seem to enjoy it but it's so hard to get him to sit down and pay attention any other times. |
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Post by teachermomtobe on Jul 23, 2018 12:32:44 GMT -6
My suggestions have already been suggested: move the last bottle to earlier in the routine so it's 20-30 mins before bed at least. Also, like cmb I think it's time to night wean (can be a slow process if you want it to be) and to let him CIO a bit more. With V I decreased the amount in her bottles by an ounce every few nights and she dropped them on her own. We stuck with like 2 oz at 4/5am for awhile mostly because I was afraid to cut it out but once we did she adapted pretty easily. I would give her a snuggle at that time instead for a few days and then she was okay. |
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Post by billyhorrible on Jul 23, 2018 12:35:12 GMT -6
I've been in similar situations with both of my kids.
And I have completely opposite advice from what you've been given.
1) My pediatrician is super against night weaning. He says, based on his experience, that children are often going through growth spurts during the first year and are waking from hunger at night, and dropping in growth from advice to cut those. Anecdotally, both my kids had their largest growth spurts/jumps between 9 months and 13 months. In my circle we're the only ones who didn't night wean, and the only ones whose kids jumped up percentages during that time period. My friends' kids all dropped or stalled in growth during the same time. Both of them stopped waking to eat between 13 and 16 months.
2) teething REALLY affected my kids and ruined any good sleep they were giving us before. My oldest went from walking 0 or 1 time, to 6 times when his teeth were coming in. And then back to normal once they popped. Even with medication. It was miserable with my first, but with my second we at least knew it would eventually end. And my husband and I took turns with those night wakes until they passed.
3) my youngest had ear infections that severely messed with his sleep. No fevers. Normal behavior during the day, but screaming for hours at night. We only discovered it the first time because I was so concerned about the behavior. After that, we knew that was the symptom for him and we could get it treated quickly. So you may want to give that a check.
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Post by teachermomtobe on Jul 23, 2018 12:37:57 GMT -6
Also, around 12.5 months we had to re-sleep train and let her CIO at bedtime and MOTN again like we originally did at 6 months. It was a rough night or two but greatly improved by night 3.
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Post by teachermomtobe on Jul 23, 2018 12:42:38 GMT -6
Since billyhorrible decided to share her example on why night weaning will stunt your child's growth, I'd like to share mine that shows it has no such impact. At her 9 month appt she was 70% for height and 50% for weight and at 12 months she was 86% for height and 65% for weight. We night weaned around 10.5/11 months. Just anecdotal info. |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Jul 23, 2018 13:01:11 GMT -6
My suggestions have already been suggested: move the last bottle to earlier in the routine so it's 20-30 mins before bed at least. Also, like cmb I think it's time to night wean (can be a slow process if you want it to be) and to let him CIO a bit more. With V I decreased the amount in her bottles by an ounce every few nights and she dropped them on her own. We stuck with like 2 oz at 4/5am for awhile mostly because I was afraid to cut it out but once we did she adapted pretty easily. I would give her a snuggle at that time instead for a few days and then she was okay. I need to drop the 5AM feed but am scared to try. He also has not been falling back asleep easily after so I guess the snooze feed isn't really doing its job anyway... |
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Post by teachermomtobe on Jul 23, 2018 13:10:35 GMT -6
My suggestions have already been suggested: move the last bottle to earlier in the routine so it's 20-30 mins before bed at least. Also, like cmb I think it's time to night wean (can be a slow process if you want it to be) and to let him CIO a bit more. With V I decreased the amount in her bottles by an ounce every few nights and she dropped them on her own. We stuck with like 2 oz at 4/5am for awhile mostly because I was afraid to cut it out but once we did she adapted pretty easily. I would give her a snuggle at that time instead for a few days and then she was okay. I need to drop the 5AM feed but am scared to try. He also has not been falling back asleep easily after so I guess the snooze feed isn't really doing its job anyway... That was what made me stop. She was staying awake anyway after the bottle so I dropped it and snuggled and let her cry and within a few days she was sleeping until 6ish which is normal for her. |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Jul 23, 2018 13:18:02 GMT -6
I need to drop the 5AM feed but am scared to try. He also has not been falling back asleep easily after so I guess the snooze feed isn't really doing its job anyway... That was what made me stop. She was staying awake anyway after the bottle so I dropped it and snuggled and let her cry and within a few days she was sleeping until 6ish which is normal for her. Really?? I feel like he is definitely still tired at 5 or 5:30 and he'll cry for a few minutes, fall asleep for a few minutes, wake up and cry for a few minutes, until I give up and go get him. This morning I tried sleeping with him in bed and he was doing the same thing but without the crying since I was there. A lot of squirming and not being able to stay asleep. Either way, I am not getting any sleep. Maybe it is time to give it a try. |
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koritto
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Post by koritto on Jul 23, 2018 13:32:32 GMT -6
I have hair pats and controversial advice Here’s my advice- wean him completely from the bottle and let him scream however long he needs to. Ear plugs will be your friend so will turning off the monitor. He needs to break the bottle association and learn to sleep. Like I said, controversial advice, but it works. I don’t usually go here and my kid didn’t STTN till 22 months (so 2 months ago lol) but I spent a lot of time reading sleep blogs and books. This was truly what finally worked. I knew deep down the only reason she woke was to nurse and then want me. As soon as we weaned she stopped it. It sucks while it’s happening but the glory in a good nights sleep is SO much better. I would firmly drop that third nap too. Especially as you approach a year and they will be rocking between 1-2 naps for a bit. Good luck. |
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cmb
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Post by cmb on Jul 23, 2018 13:59:48 GMT -6
Since billyhorrible decided to share her example on why night weaning will stunt your child's growth, I'd like to share mine that shows it has no such impact. At her 9 month appt she was 70% for height and 50% for weight and at 12 months she was 86% for height and 65% for weight. We night weaned around 10.5/11 months. Just anecdotal info. We’ve jumped up every appointment as well. I night weaned around 3-4 months |
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cmb
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Post by cmb on Jul 23, 2018 14:07:04 GMT -6
That was what made me stop. She was staying awake anyway after the bottle so I dropped it and snuggled and let her cry and within a few days she was sleeping until 6ish which is normal for her. Really?? I feel like he is definitely still tired at 5 or 5:30 and he'll cry for a few minutes, fall asleep for a few minutes, wake up and cry for a few minutes, until I give up and go get him. This morning I tried sleeping with him in bed and he was doing the same thing but without the crying since I was there. A lot of squirming and not being able to stay asleep. Either way, I am not getting any sleep. Maybe it is time to give it a try. Getting DS2 to sleep to 6:15/6:30 was similar for us. He would wake at 5 and we got him. We eventually had to just stop and let him deal. It took about a week. He also has a Hatch Baby that’s set to turn green at wake up time. He now just plays quietly until it goes off (it took over a month to get him to associate it with wake up time, but now he does |
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Post by teachermomtobe on Jul 23, 2018 14:14:39 GMT -6
Really?? I feel like he is definitely still tired at 5 or 5:30 and he'll cry for a few minutes, fall asleep for a few minutes, wake up and cry for a few minutes, until I give up and go get him. This morning I tried sleeping with him in bed and he was doing the same thing but without the crying since I was there. A lot of squirming and not being able to stay asleep. Either way, I am not getting any sleep. Maybe it is time to give it a try. Getting DS2 to sleep to 6:15/6:30 was similar for us. He would wake at 5 and we got him. We eventually had to just stop and let him deal. It took about a week. He also has a Hatch Baby that’s set to turn green at wake up time. He now just plays quietly until it goes off (it took over a month to get him to associate it with wake up time, but now he does How oldwhen you started with the Hatch Baby? |
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cmb
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Post by cmb on Jul 23, 2018 14:25:27 GMT -6
Getting DS2 to sleep to 6:15/6:30 was similar for us. He would wake at 5 and we got him. We eventually had to just stop and let him deal. It took about a week. He also has a Hatch Baby that’s set to turn green at wake up time. He now just plays quietly until it goes off (it took over a month to get him to associate it with wake up time, but now he does How oldwhen you started with the Hatch Baby? He got it for his birthday so a few days past 1. He’ll be 15m this week and has definitely known what it means for at least a month now. I didn’t track when he actually started associating, sometime between 13-14 months. DS1 got an okay to wake clock around age 2, and that took him 1-2 months to associate with wake up as well. We just make it a conscious effort to go in when it’s set to go on and get all excited about it being morning and time to get up and that the light was green ETA- we got hatch baby because I liked it stays on all night (we have it set to red for night time that switches to green in the morning). An okay to wake clock works for this as well, and we used that for over a year with DS1 before I switched to a hatch for him |
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addymac
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Post by addymac on Jul 23, 2018 15:52:07 GMT -6
Thanks guys. Lots to think about and process. I appreciate everyone’s stories!! Sorry I wasn’t around much to answer a lot, kitchen Reno + getting N out of the house + awful nights sleep = not around.
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Jul 24, 2018 10:51:47 GMT -6
billyhorrible, that is an interesting idea that I haven't heard before. I thought the idea was that at a certain point they learn, and are physically able, to consolidate their eating, much like adults do. The anecdotes are interesting but they don't indicate causation to me. A baby eating through the night by habit could grow more, regardless of whether they are going through a growth spurt. And if most babies in that age group are night-weaned, that could explain why the non-night-weaned babies jumped up percentiles, since percentiles are all relative. And then again, there are plenty of opposite anecdotes. Also, a 26+ pound 11 MO is somewhere in the 90th+ percentile. At some point, does he really need to eat more and jump percentile? Or does any baby need to jump percentile rather than staying on the curve? Anyway, they are all interesting to think about so thanks for sharing a different viewpoint.
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Post by thechickencoop on Jul 24, 2018 20:19:31 GMT -6
They're short books though, right? We probably sometimes do that many... but it is probably too much. We do two, but I have two kids so they each pick one out. Hey - if you have the time, reading is good! WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?? HIIIIII! |
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Post by thechickencoop on Jul 24, 2018 20:34:18 GMT -6
I can just offer hair pats. Hang in there.
Sleep issues suck. DS1 didn't STTN until 13 months or so when I finally completely night weaned him. DS2 still wakes at least once (he's 10.5 mo) sometimes twice, sometimes more. There's no rhyme or reason. I generally blame it on teething but he doesn't have any teeth yet 😂
I just keep reminding myself that it's always a phase. It will pass. It sucks. And I'll cry and bitch about it and be a grouchy mess and hate my life. But it will end.
FWIW DS1 sleeps like a rock now at 6. We were on vacation last week and all slept in the same room. DS2 was up most nights several times SCREAMING for a significant time and DS1, sleeping 10 feet away, didn't bat an eye. Makes me a little worried about like...smoke detectors as he gets older but for now 🤷♀️
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ttcbabyj
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Post by ttcbabyj on Jul 25, 2018 1:05:29 GMT -6
cmb I love our Hatch baby light. They also use one at daycare. Usually, I can tell DD to lay down over the monitor and she will lay back down when she wakes up to early. But she will also wait for the light as well. They ring this little bell thing at daycare to transition them from lunch to nap time, it kind of sounds like our telephone. So when the phone rings she will just dive down on the floor. 😂😂 Good thing most people call our cell phones.
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