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Post by cakewench on Apr 10, 2018 10:16:42 GMT -6
Huckabee is calling the Cohen raid a coup d’etat. (The dad, not SHS. Though I’m sure she’ll have a doozy during the briefing today. If there is one.)
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JukEboX
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Post by JukEboX on Apr 10, 2018 10:31:53 GMT -6
OH Man what am I going to listen to at 2PM!?!?!?!? SHS and Zuck both on a 2!
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Apr 10, 2018 10:37:20 GMT -6
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mb3
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Post by mb3 on Apr 10, 2018 10:54:44 GMT -6
I am really torn on this. I feel like I have nothing to really contribute to a discussion about it, I just don’t really know how I feel. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 11:25:53 GMT -6
I read this and had so many thoughts I almost started a thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 11:26:38 GMT -6
Breaking news on CNN - the Cohen raid sought records on payments to......multiple women.
BUCKLE UP
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Apr 10, 2018 11:27:48 GMT -6
I read this and had so many thoughts I almost started a thread. Why not? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 11:35:11 GMT -6
I read this and had so many thoughts I almost started a thread. Why not? I thought I would honestly "wait it out" a little longer and see if he reemerged a little bit closer to midterms. I know he is trying his best to stick with tradition, I respect that.
But on the other hand, I agree that we need him. And reading about what transpired with the DNC and how we got to where we are, and his part in that, was tough to read.
But either way, his influence on young people, we need that right now more than ever. More than when he was running. Young people are listening and this is a very unique moment in history with a unique set of circumstances.
I need him to say to hell with tradition (I acknowledge how fucking selfish this sounds) and poke his head out a little. We need him still.
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elle
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Post by elle on Apr 10, 2018 11:46:06 GMT -6
I am really torn on this. I feel like I have nothing to really contribute to a discussion about it, I just don’t really know how I feel. I have feelings. Laying the present state of conservatism at Obama's feet instead of the last 50 years of conservatives slowly building their narrow-minded, fact-free, anti-intellectual echo chambers, largely as a response to a sense that black people were getting too free for their tastes, moving into their neighborhoods and schools, benefiting from government assistance that had always been primarily theirs, VOTING, etc, etc is some PRIMO WHITE NONSENSE. ON TOP OF THAT, most presidents step back after their presidency and quietly pursue non-political--or at least, not explicitly partisan--activities. This is how things happen in normal times, and treating Obama as some aberration for not cleaning up a mess folks WANT to blame on him but definitely isn't his fault is screwy. As much as I may miss them, the Obamas deserve their peace and quiet. What's more, I'm not sure further departures from normal presidential behavior--even of former presidents--is to be encouraged right now. How about instead of trying to blame this shit on Obama and make Obama come deal with this, we start holding our current leaders accountable? Better yet: how about we try holding our CONSERVATIVE leaders accountable? The speaker and senate majority leader have had shit all to say about Trump's repeated departures from the proscribed behavior for a sitting president, when it comes to either legal or ethical/moral issues. WHY NOT HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR OWN FUCKING PARTY?  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 11:49:41 GMT -6
I am really torn on this. I feel like I have nothing to really contribute to a discussion about it, I just don’t really know how I feel. I have feelings. Laying the present state of conservatism at Obama's feet instead of the last 50 years of conservatives slowly building their narrow-minded, fact-free, anti-intellectual echo chambers, largely as a response to a sense that black people were getting too free for their tastes, moving into their neighborhoods and schools, benefiting from government assistance that had always been primarily theirs, VOTING, etc, etc is some PRIMO WHITE NONSENSE. ON TOP OF THAT, most presidents step back after their presidency and quietly pursue non-political--or at least, not explicitly partisan--activities. This is how things happen in normal times, and treating Obama as some aberration for not cleaning up a mess folks WANT to blame on him but definitely isn't his fault is screwy. As much as I may miss them, the Obamas deserve their peace and quiet. What's more, I'm not sure further departures from normal presidential behavior--even of former presidents--is to be encouraged right now. How about instead of trying to blame this shit on Obama and make Obama come deal with this, we start holding our current leaders accountable? Better yet: how about we try holding our CONSERVATIVE leaders accountable? The speaker and senate majority leader have had shit all to say about Trump's repeated departures from the proscribed behavior for a sitting president, when it comes to either legal or ethical/moral issues. WHY NOT HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR OWN FUCKING PARTY? I hear what you're saying.....but I don't agree with the first paragraph. I don't think that is what the writer was portraying at all. There was definitely some missteps on his, and his campaign's parts when it came to the DNC. They had no ground game during mid term elections, and unfortunately no help, and no money because of that. I am not saying OH MY GOD HE IS TERRIBLE AND IT'S ALL HIS FAULT, it's not. There is blame to go around, he is part of that.
I don't think anyone thinks it's his job to clean up this mess. That is certainly not my intention, anyway. I truly hope he will come out a little bit closer to midterms.
Barack is a good, kind man, sometimes to a fault. His legacy is being tarnished and washed away by the same man who felt it was okay to spew racist bullshit and gain followers through the idea that Barack was not born here. From a purely human standpoint, I hate to see him sit on his hands and be quiet about it, because it is absolute utter and total fucking bullshit to the nth degree. He does deserve peace. He deserves it more than anyone.
But, given what went down between his campaign and the DNC, I do think it would be pretty awesome if he lended a hand for midterms. It's too important to be quiet. Especially since after Trump got elected, he was emphatic that he and Michelle would be involved and get back to work. I remember that. So I am holding on to hope that he will help energize the party come midterms. We need him. That's what it comes down to for me. This is too important.
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mb3
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Post by mb3 on Apr 10, 2018 11:54:09 GMT -6
@heartbot, thank you. I can piggy back on a lot of what you said.
My one “other” thought was that it’s sort of like how he and Biden decided they couldn’t “out” the investigation into Trump. But I also respect that decision. Yes, I very much wish that it had been public knowledge but I know why they made the choice they did since it couldn’t be a bipartisan “reveal”.
I get saying we need him. But I’m not even sure we need Obama himself as much as we need WHAT Obama was- a charismatic leader that inspired participation from his party. I do suspect we might see the Obamas emerge more at midterms, and I certainly think there is a good chance we will see them in 2020 because I think that’s the norm. I respect his “silence” now and recognizet that he’s holding it because he feels it’s the best way to preserve our democracy.
I agree 100% of the blame on not reigning Trump in is on Congress, not Obama. And I’d be happy to see Obama again, but I don’t think we can rely on Obama to be our leader now- we need another, current leader who can be the future.
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Post by enchanted on Apr 10, 2018 12:02:48 GMT -6
This article about the Hart family is heartbreaking. This excerpt is horrifying: It makes me so angry to see how little attention this has gotten and to see how much of the attention it *has* received to be dominated by narratives about how wonderful the parents were, IN SPITE of the abuse investigations, IN SPITE of the fact that it was suspected they murdered the children. Only would white women raising black children be given this much leeway in light of doing something so awful. I had to stop reading about it because people were defending them and talking about adoption depression, which I am sure is a legitimate thing, but that is (I'm 99.9999 percent sure) not what happened here. These women were playing white savior on the surface and abusing those kids. |
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Apr 10, 2018 12:03:28 GMT -6
I agree with parts of what everyone said. I also agree that maybe we don't need him directly, but someone who is a charismatic leader that can help get us out of the death spiral we are in. But he was the last one we knew and no one else is volunteering.
And while yes, the precedent has been for past Presidents to take a step back... these are not normal times. And Congress is incompetent.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 12:03:49 GMT -6
I like this paragraph from the article - it puts it into perspective. Obama does not need to be a "leader" or clean up a "mess" - the party simply needs his support right now.
"Given that Obama ended his term with high approval ratings and remains an admired figure within much of the electorate, he could use his standing to build support to check Trump, the most unpopular president in recent history. A vibrant party is capable of handling many voices, new and old, at the same time. Frail and depleted parties are the ones that can’t walk and chew gum at the same time."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 12:04:15 GMT -6
This article about the Hart family is heartbreaking. This excerpt is horrifying: It makes me so angry to see how little attention this has gotten and to see how much of the attention it *has* received to be dominated by narratives about how wonderful the parents were, IN SPITE of the abuse investigations, IN SPITE of the fact that it was suspected they murdered the children. Only would white women raising black children be given this much leeway in light of doing something so awful. This story is so horrible. It’s gotten a little more attention here because it happened close by, but not to this level of detail. |
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Apr 10, 2018 12:08:46 GMT -6
I like this paragraph from the article - it puts it into perspective. Obama does not need to be a "leader" or clean up a "mess" - the party simply needs his support right now. "Given that Obama ended his term with high approval ratings and remains an admired figure within much of the electorate, he could use his standing to build support to check Trump, the most unpopular president in recent history. A vibrant party is capable of handling many voices, new and old, at the same time. Frail and depleted parties are the ones that can’t walk and chew gum at the same time." Yes |
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crunch
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Post by crunch on Apr 10, 2018 12:09:46 GMT -6
President Obama is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. I feel bad for him.
Also he doesn’t owe us anything, IMO. He was treated like shit for 8 years by racist assholes. His family was too. And then a racist asshole was elected. He earned his right to sit it out.
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crunch
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Post by crunch on Apr 10, 2018 12:11:23 GMT -6
And I don’t think we need him specifically. We need someone to inspire the party like he did.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 12:17:46 GMT -6
@heartbot we will have to agree to disagree - I personally think that assessment is OTT and not at all the point of the article.
I see it more as focusing on where the DNC went wrong, and Obama's and his campaign's role in that. Like as a party, we can't ignore that and it's okay to point out.
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Apr 10, 2018 12:19:20 GMT -6
President Obama is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. I feel bad for him. Also he doesn’t owe us anything, IMO. He was treated like shit for 8 years by racist assholes. His family was too. And then a racist asshole was elected. He earned his right to sit it out. THis is where I'm at. If he was stepping up and being vocal, people would just be criticising that stance. They just want to talk about him. What the Democrats really need is not for Obama to come out and be vocal, but instead is a new charismatic leader within the party. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 12:19:36 GMT -6
I feel strongly that parents of adopted children do not own their story. The do not get to tell people of the background of their children before they came to them. If the child/person wants to share their story, they have that right. The parents telling about past drug exposure and circumstances of living with his first family made my skin crawl. There’s no reason that should be out there.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 12:20:38 GMT -6
President Obama is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. I feel bad for him. Also he doesn’t owe us anything, IMO. He was treated like shit for 8 years by racist assholes. His family was too. And then a racist asshole was elected. He earned his right to sit it out. THis is where I'm at. If he was stepping up and being vocal, people would just be criticising that stance. They just want to talk about him. What the Democrats really need is not for Obama to come out and be vocal, but instead is a new charismatic leader within the party. Multiple leaders would be great. I wish people who worked for Obama, but don’t have name recognition would be more active. |
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Apr 10, 2018 12:20:51 GMT -6
@heartbot , thank you. I can piggy back on a lot of what you said. My one “other” thought was that it’s sort of like how he and Biden decided they couldn’t “out” the investigation into Trump. But I also respect that decision. Yes, I very much wish that it had been public knowledge but I know why they made the choice they did since it couldn’t be a bipartisan “reveal”. I get saying we need him. But I’m not even sure we need Obama himself as much as we need WHAT Obama was- a charismatic leader that inspired participation from his party. I do suspect we might see the Obamas emerge more at midterms, and I certainly think there is a good chance we will see them in 2020 because I think that’s the norm. I respect his “silence” now and recognizet that he’s holding it because he feels it’s the best way to preserve our democracy. I agree 100% of the blame on not reigning Trump in is on Congress, not Obama. And I’d be happy to see Obama again, but I don’t think we can rely on Obama to be our leader now- we need another, current leader who can be the future. yes, this. Obama isn't Jesus. He shouldn't--and can't--save us from Trumpism. If he could, Trumpism wouldn't have happened in his shadow. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 12:23:46 GMT -6
Breaking news on CNN - the Cohen raid sought records on payments to......multiple women. BUCKLE UP Looks like the other hush payment they are looking into is regarding ex-playboy Playmate Karen McDougal. |
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Apr 10, 2018 12:24:06 GMT -6
I agree with parts of what everyone said. I also agree that maybe we don't need him directly, but someone who is a charismatic leader that can help get us out of the death spiral we are in. But he was the last one we knew and no one else is volunteering. And while yes, the precedent has been for past Presidents to take a step back... these are not normal times. And Congress is incompetent. I disagree that no one else is volunteering to step up right now. We've seen a surge in people running for political office in 2018, especially women, and at the national level, several high profile politicians have not only been vocal about Trump and the state of conservatism but are suspected of having presidential ambitions. Harris, Booker, Warren, Biden, Schumer, Gillibrand, Duckworth, even Bernie Sanders. When you lose a presidential election after 8 years of holding the office, it always takes time to backfill the role, it always takes usually until the next major election (2020) in order for THE person to rise to the top. That's without even going into the massive amounts of grassroots protests & the rise of leadership via BLM, The Women's March, March for Our Lives, MeToo, etc. These are not normal times, but making things more abnormal instead of loudly insisting on a return to Democratic norms is a push in the wrong direction. I also feel like expecting a hero to swoop in and save us while ignoring, erasing, and negating all of the hard work literally millions of people at all levels are doing to fight back is counterproductive. I agree that there are definitely some good people doing some good work, but I'd like to leave Sanders out of it. He's causing a lot more harm than good right now, IMO. I don't mean he should stop being vocal about things or stop doing his job, but he's a narcissist too, and that's not helping. Maybe I'm jsut bitter tho |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 12:24:34 GMT -6
I still don't get why we are under the impression that Obama has to "save" us?
Just............no
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Post by hawkeye2015 on Apr 10, 2018 12:25:49 GMT -6
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Apr 10, 2018 12:28:38 GMT -6
I don't know that Obama, as popular as he was at the end of his term (and how missed he is now), coming in would do anything to help the Democrats right now. Part of the objection to HRC was the notion of "a continuation of Obama policies." A lot of people painted a Hillary Clinton presidency as eight more years of Obama.
We know that Trump and his minions love to hate Obama and love to smear him. I see no value in him putting himself out there and giving Trump something to tweet about, which will, in turn, lead the media narrative to focus on the squabble between them rather than the brewing legal and political shitstorm above Trump's head. Don't give him anything else to use as a distraction, because many people will fall for a shiny object every time.
My final thought is that the Democrats still aren't sure whether or not to make the midterms a referendum on Trump. It's broadly thought that it wouldn't be an effective strategy. So trotting out our former leader too heavily would imply, "I did a great job, even with huge obstacles, and this MFer is screwing it all up!" And that would turn the midterms into a Trump/anti-Trump election. Strategically, I don't think that's the right move.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Apr 10, 2018 12:30:01 GMT -6
I can't even speak about Bernie right now.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Apr 10, 2018 12:31:24 GMT -6
things are getting started in the Hart building so I'm jumping over to that thread.
I'm planning to watch Sarah's briefing later too and I'll post highlights in here.
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