BOOK CLUB - Fierce Kingdom DISCUSSION - TW: Mass Shooting

[Risscaboobs]

1. Consider the fact that Fierce Kingdom is set in a zoo — an environment we normally think of as safe and where animals, not humans, are in captivity. How has the author turned that conception on its head? Why might Gin Phillips have used a zoo? What darker currents might she be exploring?



2. Follow-up to Question 1: Consider, too, that motherhood is a form of instinctive animal behavior.



3. Describe Joan as a mother. Is she normally overly protective of Lincoln (to wit: watching her sister-in-law strap him into the car)? Or are her concerns typical of most mothers?



4. Once under fire at the zoo, how does Joan go about protecting Lincoln? What kind of traits emerge that enable her to keep him safe? How does her knowledge of her son help her make the choices she does? How might you fare under such circumstances?



5. Talk about Lincoln. How does he respond to the danger he and his mother are both exposed to? Did you find some of his chatter and cleverness grating … or endearing?



6. What do you make of Joan's observation about Lincoln — that "He is a whole separate being, as real as she is"? If you are a parent of a young child (or if you once were), does this statement resonate with you? Have you ever had that epiphany?



7. What do you make of the fact that we are privy to the inner thoughts of one of the shooters — an unusual perspective, to say the least? Why might Phillips have decided to give us access to Robbie's point of view? What do we learn about him?



8. The action takes place in real time: we read as events transpire from moment to moment. What effect does the tick-tock time-keeping have on your reading?



Then my own - just what were your general thoughts?  What did you think of the baby in the trash can!?  I couldn't stop thinking about that...  Anything else you'd like to discuss?

[Risscaboobs]

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[Risscaboobs]

The baby being in the trash can was so horrible to me. Like I was so fucking angry at first. But then I thought about the motivation of both mothers. I can see how the baby’s mom may have thought it was the best option if she couldn’t get the baby to stop crying. And as Joan, I was angry at her for not just picking up that baby. But then I thought about if it had been me, with my only motivation being to keep Lexi alive. I guess I would have made the same decision.

[cdnfroggy]

1. Consider the fact that Fierce Kingdom is set in a zoo — an environment we normally think of as safe and where animals, not humans, are in captivity. How has the author turned that conception on its head? Why might Gin Phillips have used a zoo? What darker currents might she be exploring? The author made a safe place unsafe and scary, which can up the thrill factor while reading. The (super dark) current it made me think of is how animals stampede/run crazy when there is a huge threat, which people may also do when there is a huge threat.



2. Follow-up to Question 1: Consider, too, that motherhood is a form of instinctive animal behavior. The instinct to protect is crazy strong, so it's definitely a parallel to that



3. Describe Joan as a mother. Is she normally overly protective of Lincoln (to wit: watching her sister-in-law strap him into the car)? Or are her concerns typical of most mothers? I feel like she was a little overprotective, but not more than most other parents.



4. Once under fire at the zoo, how does Joan go about protecting Lincoln? What kind of traits emerge that enable her to keep him safe? How does her knowledge of her son help her make the choices she does? How might you fare under such circumstances? It's been a few months since I've read it, so my memory is a bit blurry, but if I remember right, she did what she could with what she had at the time. I have no idea how I would fare, hopefully I would be able to protect DS until help arrived.



5. Talk about Lincoln. How does he respond to the danger he and his mother are both exposed to? Did you find some of his chatter and cleverness grating … or endearing? He reacted the way most kids his age would most likely react. I found his chatter both cute and grating...much like it would be in real life.
For some reason, I remember being a bit frustrated with Joan when she wouldn't be more forceful in telling him to stop talking, but again, I have no idea how I would react.



6. What do you make of Joan's observation about Lincoln — that "He is a whole separate being, as real as she is"? If you are a parent of a young child (or if you once were), does this statement resonate with you? Have you ever had that epiphany? I have, and I haven't. I've never had a problem seeing him as his own being.



7. What do you make of the fact that we are privy to the inner thoughts of one of the shooters — an unusual perspective, to say the least? Why might Phillips have decided to give us access to Robbie's point of view? What do we learn about him? I think Phillips did that so that we may understand the other side of it. It's not a perspective often seen in contemporary fiction, because it is such a...heated subject in the States, so it was a little jarring to see that first. I appreciated what it added to the story.



8. The action takes place in real time: we read as events transpire from moment to moment. What effect does the tick-tock time-keeping have on your reading? It made me want to read quicker.



Then my own - just what were your general thoughts? What did you think of the baby in the trash can!? I couldn't stop thinking about that... Anything else you'd like to discuss? The baby in the trash can broke my heart, but in situations like that, I think it's hard to judge how people react. I enjoyed the book, but also found it frustrating. I took issues with the whole, they were somewhere safe, but risk it to get her kid a snack thing. I understand it was partially to move the story forward, but I feel like I'd rather stay safe and have an unhappy kid then risk it for food. I also understand that maybe the kid gets hangry and maybe turns into a screaming banshee when hungry, but maybe not. I also wanted to know what happened to the teacher. And, plus/also, if you have a phone, why not just turn it off instead of throwing it away? Or use it to call the police and let them know roughly where people are positioned. I basically didn't like Joan very much.

[RunsforWineandCarbs]

1. Consider the fact that Fierce Kingdom is set in a zoo — an environment we normally think of as safe and where animals, not humans, are in captivity. How has the author turned that conception on its head? Why might Gin Phillips have used a zoo? What darker currents might she be exploring? Not only was i worried about a shooter, but i was worried about animals getting lose, posing another threat to the characters - i like how it added the suspense.



2. Follow-up to Question 1: Consider, too, that motherhood is a form of instinctive animal behavior. The saying mama bear comes to mind here. Our animal instinct to protect and defend takes over.



3. Describe Joan as a mother. Is she normally overly protective of Lincoln (to wit: watching her sister-in-law strap him into the car)? Or are her concerns typical of most mothers? I think she is a great mother. She is in the present with her child, not on the phone or working. She plays with him, she's not afraid to get dirty, she protects him and puts him first. I think her worries as a mom are normal - I worry about some crazy shit now as a mom that never would have crossed my mind before kids.



4. Once under fire at the zoo, how does Joan go about protecting Lincoln? What kind of traits emerge that enable her to keep him safe? How does her knowledge of her son help her make the choices she does? How might you fare under such circumstances? The first thing she does is run in the opposite direction and stays away from other people. I think this is smart thinking. She pushes her fears back so she can do what is in the best interest of her and her child. She thinks through her choices. She also knows that she has to face her fear and keep moving to keep her child happy and quiet. IF she didn't go for food, he would scream and surely make themselves a target. I would like to think that I would be a fast thinker and quick to respond like she was. Even have the same courage Joan did while protecting Kailynn at the end.



5. Talk about Lincoln. How does he respond to the danger he and his mother are both exposed to? Did you find some of his chatter and cleverness grating … or endearing? I liked Lincoln. Although I kept questioning if he was autistic or just a very young 4 year old. I can't imagine my 4 yo acting like he did through that situation. She doesn't know how to stop talking. And if in that situation, she'd be crying more due to fear I think. Which is also why I thought Lincoln might be autistic - the way he focused on certain things and would "disappear".



6. What do you make of Joan's observation about Lincoln — that "He is a whole separate being, as real as she is"? If you are a parent of a young child (or if you once were), does this statement resonate with you? Have you ever had that epiphany? It does resonate with me. My kids are a part of me but they are a whole separate being at the same time. I see it daily with my kids - the question, who are you, plays through my head when they do something that is out of the ordinary for me but is normal to them. It's amazing to be a part of them and watching them grow into their own little person that they are.



7. What do you make of the fact that we are privy to the inner thoughts of one of the shooters — an unusual perspective, to say the least? Why might Phillips have decided to give us access to Robbie's point of view? What do we learn about him? I think it added to the suspense when the point of view changed between the characters. Again, I thought that something was off with Robbie. At first I thought it was really 1 shooter with multiple personalities, changing voices but talking to oneself. Robbie seemed a bit slow and just wanted to fit in. By the end I felt bad for him.



8. The action takes place in real time: we read as events transpire from moment to moment. What effect does the tick-tock time-keeping have on your reading? It helped keep the situation real to me, it wasn't a story that took place over days - just hours. I wanted to keep going and stay apart of the story.



Then my own - just what were your general thoughts? What did you think of the baby in the trash can!? I couldn't stop thinking about that... Anything else you'd like to discuss?
I really enjoyed this book. However, I have so many questions that are unanswered. I want to know what happened to the baby in the trash can, the baby's mom, the teacher, Kailynn. Did Joan survive or did she loose to much blood by the time the cops got to her (as we only know she was slipping in and out of consciousness). Was there really a 3rd shooter (cause my mind wants it to be 1..)

I think it was smart of the mother to put the baby in the trash can. She couldn't' make it stop crying. IF she continued to walk around with the crying baby, both could have been killed. She took a chance. She did what she thought was best. I want to believe that the mom survived and told the cops where to find the baby and the baby is just hungry and mad at being left alone but otherwise alive and well.

[Risscaboobs]

Mar 20, 2018 5:52:04 GMT -6 RunsforWineandCarbs said:

Was there really a 3rd shooter (cause my mind wants it to be 1..)

We know there were at least two shooters, Robbie and Mark (I think his name was - it’s been a few
Months since I read this). I’m pretty sure the shooter at the entrance with the “hostages” was real too. Dustin, maybe? Because Mark seemed pretty upset when he said he was killed.

[Risscaboobs]

Guess I’ll go ahead and answer the actual questions lol.

1. Consider the fact that Fierce Kingdom is set in a zoo — an environment we normally think of as safe and where animals, not humans, are in captivity. How has the author turned that conception on its head? Why might Gin Phillips have used a zoo? What darker currents might she be exploring?

I thought using a zoo was terrifying. It’s supposed to be this fun and safe place to take your children - not somewhere you would expect a shooting to happen. And the fact that they end up trapped was ironic.

2. Follow-up to Question 1: Consider, too, that motherhood is a form of instinctive animal behavior.

Yes, motherhood is instinctual. Most of our human behavior is, for that matter. Even the crowd of people running to the exit is instinctual. Like a herd of animals trying to escape.

3. Describe Joan as a mother. Is she normally overly protective of Lincoln (to wit: watching her sister-in-law strap him into the car)? Or are her concerns typical of most mothers?

I didn’t think of Joan as overprotective in the least. He’s her son. I found her “concerns” very typical.

4. Once under fire at the zoo, how does Joan go about protecting Lincoln? What kind of traits emerge that enable her to keep him safe? How does her knowledge of her son help her make the choices she does? How might you fare under such circumstances?

Joan is very calm and levelheaded once the shooting starts. I’d like to think I would fare the same, but I guess you never know. I think it was smart to avoid other people, especially in the beginning. I have no idea how I’d keep my daughter quiet in this situation - but she’s only 2.5.

5. Talk about Lincoln. How does he respond to the danger he and his mother are both exposed to? Did you find some of his chatter and cleverness grating … or endearing?

I found Lincoln to be endearing. Yes, sometimes I wished he shut up and just be hungry, but he’s also 4. I think he responded amazingly under the circumstances.

6. What do you make of Joan's observation about Lincoln — that "He is a whole separate being, as real as she is"? If you are a parent of a young child (or if you once were), does this statement resonate with you? Have you ever had that epiphany?

Duh. Lol. I’ve never had a problem realizing my child is someone apart from me. Obviously she’s a piece of me, but i found her epiphany a bit stupid, to be honest. It is fun watching who my daughter is becoming, though. I’ve just never not seen her as her own person.

7. What do you make of the fact that we are privy to the inner thoughts of one of the shooters — an unusual perspective, to say the least? Why might Phillips have decided to give us access to Robbie's point of view? What do we learn about him?

Robbie is fucked up. That’s for sure. I felt a little bad for him, but I mostly just wanted him to die. 😕 I’m sure I’d have felt differently if he hadn’t shot a bunch of people. I think we were given that POV access because it’s rarely done and people often wonder WHY someone would choose to do something so horrible.

8. The action takes place in real time: we read as events transpire from moment to moment. What effect does the tick-tock time-keeping have on your reading?

It definitely made me want to keep reading. It kept the suspense up.

[RunsforWineandCarbs]

Risscaboobs, 3rd guys was destin, you were close:)

I do know there was 3 but i was convinced at the beginning that the shooter was crazy - i had a hard time letting it go. Plus I thought that would have been a great twist.

[melohdy]

I'll have to go back and answer the questions later; but this book terrified me. I have a 4yo and the way her son was acting was JUST like how my daughter would behave in situations like that. I was filled with so much anxiety reading it. I don't know if I would have been as cool, calm, and collected as she was.