BOOK CLUB - The Fifth Letter Discussion

[Risscaboobs]

1. The book’s narrator, Joni, is disappointed to learn that her childhood friends don’t share everything like they used to. Do you think she’s being dramatic? How many of your secrets do you share with your friends?


2. Do you believe Joni as a narrator, or do you think her point of view is skewed?



3. Even in her letter, Joni didn’t share what was happening in her quest for a child. Why do you think she held that back, even as she was hoping for greater connection with her girlfriends?


4. One of the secrets revealed is that someone has a crush on another woman’s husband.  Is this sort of feeling better kept private or discussed openly? Would you have shared such a secret?


5. It was Joni who pulled Deb, Trina and Eden into a friendship on that first day of school, and her who brings them together in the cottage years later. Does everyone have a role in a friendship group? Discuss the consequences of this and how these roles change over time.


6. For years Eden kept what really happened in Adelaide a secret from her friends. Even when given the opportunity to share her secret in the letter she backed out of spilling the truth. What did you think when you learned her truth? Were you surprised?


7. Drinking is a recurring topic in the novel, from Deb’s drunken escapade at school to Eden’s horrific attack in Adelaide to Trina’s behavior at Eden’s dinner party. Do you think the story would be different if these women hadn’t overindulged?


8. Are friendships with those you meet in childhood different to ones formed later in life? How does meeting at a young age change your relationship?


9. Joni and Eden are both desperate to win the Dirty Thirty Challenge. Is competitiveness healthy within friendships? When does it become too much?


10. In one of the letters the woman reveals worries over being a bad mother while her husband is ready for a second child. Reading the examples given in the letter, are the concerns legitimate? Why do you think that these pressures still concern women more than men?


11. Were you surprised when you learned who wrote the fifth letter? Who did you think wrote it while you were reading? Discuss the ways in which the author toys with the reader.

[Risscaboobs]

angelashly, bunnyfungo, rach7170, budders, cdnfroggy, mamascarlett, pianolove, allisong, CestLaVie, rablissful, butlerfan, pearbear, tatorhead328, 45thparallel, pippa, @blanche, kittyforman, bookworm, betches, cake, nelzie, windwithfingers, roguelily, Peekaru, kclause, loves2read, scsmith, bonzo, silverspoon, oreobitsy, reginaphalange8, criss, lupineaura, Nymeria, Radley, flat, @frank, Cher, helloerrbody, nenarene, daisy818, ktg, coffeecoffeecoffee, sluttybigb00bz, wanderingheart, ginandtonic, northernlghts, moutonrouge, dreadpirateroberts, Taitai, haleyscott, scsmith, lucilleaustero, bearfootz, jewel, blurnette989, NamasteBirches, byjove, pinkflamingo, fikafairy, grumpycat, @nellybluth, cribs, elsiemae, Radley, meggriffin; seamonster, bearfootzcontinued, @kelltothekell, onlymee, twohopes, fosterlove, Notarobot, sakura, RunsforWineandCarbs, zoeylucy, jedi, brewcitygal, flyliceandcoffee

[angelashly]

1. The book’s narrator, Joni, is disappointed to learn that her childhood friends don’t share everything like they used to. Do you think she’s being dramatic? How many of your secrets do you share with your friends? I think she was being dramatic and kind of fit with her personality I guess. My really good friends are also pretty much family and I still don't tell them everything.


2. Do you believe Joni as a narrator, or do you think her point of view is skewed? I think her view was skewed. I had a hard time with this book because of it.



3. Even in her letter, Joni didn’t share what was happening in her quest for a child. Why do you think she held that back, even as she was hoping for greater connection with her girlfriends? This was where I had the most problem with her. She is preaching talking and telling each other everything yet held back herself. Sure that is something traumatic that you are going through, but so are the things her other friends are going through.


4. One of the secrets revealed is that someone has a crush on another woman’s husband. Is this sort of feeling better kept private or discussed openly? Would you have shared such a secret? I think that this is better kept private especially knowing you weren't going to act on it. It just causes unnecessary drama which is what I think she was going for when confessing it. I would not have shared such a secret.


5. It was Joni who pulled Deb, Trina and Eden into a friendship on that first day of school, and her who brings them together in the cottage years later. Does everyone have a role in a friendship group? Discuss the consequences of this and how these roles change over time. I believe that everyone has a role in friendships and it again fits with your own personality. If you grow as a person and have personality changes this can change your role or it can cause you to not like someone who is in a certain role.


6. For years Eden kept what really happened in Adelaide a secret from her friends. Even when given the opportunity to share her secret in the letter she backed out of spilling the truth. What did you think when you learned her truth? Were you surprised? I was shocked by what really happened and I wish that she had felt that she could tell her friends because your friends should be your safe place so it made me sad she felt she couldn't tell, but this is the most real part of the book for me.


7. Drinking is a recurring topic in the novel, from Deb’s drunken escapade at school to Eden’s horrific attack in Adelaide to Trina’s behavior at Eden’s dinner party. Do you think the story would be different if these women hadn’t overindulged? No I don't think so. I think the author wanted you to think that, but I think it was personality and events not alcohol.


8. Are friendships with those you meet in childhood different to ones formed later in life? How does meeting at a young age change your relationship? I do think relationships are different for many reasons. 1. you grow as a person your whole life and 2. you have a history with old friends that is hard to get around.


9. Joni and Eden are both desperate to win the Dirty Thirty Challenge. Is competitiveness healthy within friendships? When does it become too much? I think a little competitiveness can be ok in friendship, but not what they showed. They obviously were competing for underlying issues not just to have fun.


10. In one of the letters the woman reveals worries over being a bad mother while her husband is ready for a second child. Reading the examples given in the letter, are the concerns legitimate? Why do you think that these pressures still concern women more than men? I think that is was legit for the person who wrote it, but I don't think that person was a bad mom at all and I think if a man were to write that same letter they would be told it was nothing to worry about, but women have a lot more pressure from society to be on all the time with kids.


11. Were you surprised when you learned who wrote the fifth letter? Who did you think wrote it while you were reading? Discuss the ways in which the author toys with the reader. I honestly went back and forth between Deb and Joni so I was surprised by who actually wrote it, but it also made sense once it came out because she was so stand offish.

[sakura]

1. I do feel like Joni was being dramatic and unrealistic - it’s sometimes hard to maintain friendships as adults, and it does get harder with small children. Maybe the author was using this POV as a way to highlight the difference between her and her friends with kids? In some ways it makes more sense when she and Kai ultimately decide not to have children (they could have adopted).

I share a good deal with my friends, but I’d don’t always share everything with each friend , if that makes sense. Sometimes things come up organically and are discussed.

2. I think her POV is skewed, but I think coming at it from any of the friends POV would leave the narrative skewed. I don’t think the story would have worked well from an outside POV - the surprises only worked because they were based on her knowledge of the others as they’d grown up.

3. I don’t think Joni shared her desire to have a baby because it was so deeply personal and tied to so many feelings of failure for her. Sometimes that’s just too painful to admit, even to your closest friends.

4. I think revealing the crush on another woman’s husband, especially if it’s ‘harmless’ and never will be acted on is a big mistake!! There are some things that don’t need to be shared, and that’s one of them. What good could come of it? More harm was done by revealing it.

5. I think they probably had specific roles as teenagers, but probably grew out of those roles or changed as they aged. It probably changed the dynamics of the group, even if they didn’t realize it themselves.

6. I wasn’t surprised when Eden’s real secret came out, possible TW?

SPOILER: Click to show

I kind of suspected there was some sort of abuse/molestation/rape involved from the way she reacted to the guys at the bar

7. Um, WTF to the wording of this question. But, no, I do not think that alcohol in any way led to what happened to Eden. A person did that.

My only thoughts on their drinking is that it seemed in line with what I’ve read in other books by British or Australian authors. There seems to be a different culture to drinking than we have in the US.

8. I do have a few friends from grade school, in fact one of my best friends is someone I met in kindergarten, but that’s not common. I’ve drifted away from most of my childhood friends as we grew and changed.

9. I think competition can be fine as long as neither party takes it seriously and they support each other first before they compete. But it can very easily ruin friendships, as well. And I believe the competition Joni and Eden had during he race was about more than the race itself.

10. I think they are concerns a lot of women have, and I think it’s driven by society’s perception that women are the caretakers and nurturers and men are not.

11. I wasn’t surprised, I guessed it was Deb from the beginning, but I was surprised by the why. Honestly, it seems unrealistic to hold a grudge like that. It felt like a reach to me. I think the author could have come up with something better.

Overall this book was a quick, easy read. I didn’t hate it, but I wouldn’t likely recommend it to anyone. I did geek out at the Silverchair reference, I used to be the biggest fan in high school 😄

[pianolove]

1. The book’s narrator, Joni, is disappointed to learn that her childhood friends don’t share everything like they used to. Do you think she’s being dramatic? How many of your secrets do you share with your friends?

Definitely dramatic. I feel she had too-high expectations of her friends as they entered adulthood. I share secrets only with my bff, but i don't have many "secrets" as described in this book. Like I have no scandalous past or hidden feelings from her.


2. Do you believe Joni as a narrator, or do you think her point of view is skewed?

I think her POV is skewed because she's so focused on keeping the group's status quo, she doesn't allow for even the entertainment of the idea of growing apart.



3. Even in her letter, Joni didn’t share what was happening in her quest for a child. Why do you think she held that back, even as she was hoping for greater connection with her girlfriends?

I think she expected higher levels of openness and honesty out of them than herself. She wanted to prove to herself that she knew them as much as she thought she did and so it was more about retaining their status quo than actually sharing personal feelings with each other and that's why she was so into the letter-writing.
I also think she didn't want them to think of her as she thought of herself, a failure, less than, because she had these struggles.


4. One of the secrets revealed is that someone has a crush on another woman’s husband. Is this sort of feeling better kept private or discussed openly? Would you have shared such a secret?

I think had there been limited contact and was just more of a "I think your h is hot" i would have shared it. But she was having an emotional affair with him, and enters into cheating territory for me, and should have been discussed with Ben to end it and then coming clean to Kai.


5. It was Joni who pulled Deb, Trina and Eden into a friendship on that first day of school, and her who brings them together in the cottage years later. Does everyone have a role in a friendship group? Discuss the consequences of this and how these roles change over time.

I think in Joni's mind, they do. But in reality they don't "fit" the roles she believes they do.


6. For years Eden kept what really happened in Adelaide a secret from her friends. Even when given the opportunity to share her secret in the letter she backed out of spilling the truth. What did you think when you learned her truth? Were you surprised?

It eliminated Eden as the fifth letter writer to me and I thought she may have been a victim of assault due to the way she reacted to the guys at the restaurant. I was surprised that her secret turned out to be fake but not surprised that she had been assaulted. This ties into a separate issue that I have when authors use sexual assault as plot points and nothing more.


7. Drinking is a recurring topic in the novel, from Deb’s drunken escapade at school to Eden’s horrific attack in Adelaide to Trina’s behavior at Eden’s dinner party. Do you think the story would be different if these women hadn’t overindulged?

Eden didn't overindulge, she was headbutted into unconsciousness and then assaulted so fuck that and fuck the notion that if women didn't get drunk bad things wouldn't happen to them (I know this wasn't Rissca writing these questions, I promise I'm not yelling at you!). I don't believe the story would be different because the underlying emotional issues that caused Deb and Trina to get drunk are still there.


8. Are friendships with those you meet in childhood different to ones formed later in life? How does meeting at a young age change your relationship?

Oh certainly. I'm not friends with any of my childhood friends but my bff and I met when we were 13. I am not sure how it would change a relationship but IME you mature with each other and you either grow together, grow apart, or you find a way to connect while you grow apart and find your way back. Because of length and time it gives more opportunity to either fail or succeed as friends.


9. Joni and Eden are both desperate to win the Dirty Thirty Challenge. Is competitiveness healthy within friendships? When does it become too much?

I think competition can be healthy (in a good natured "see you at the finish line, don't take too long!" sort of way) but not when it's two married women competing for the one's husband. That's fucked up. I prefer a much more direct approach "look bitch I know you like my husband, back off or this is the end of our friendship."

10. In one of the letters the woman reveals worries over being a bad mother while her husband is ready for a second child. Reading the examples given in the letter, are the concerns legitimate? Why do you think that these pressures still concern women more than men?

I don't think the actual examples given were a big deal personally, but her feelings as a struggling mom were valid. I think that she put too much pressure on herself and nit picked at things she didn't like about her own parenting (who can't relate to the phone one?)
I know more than a few men who were concerned they were/were going to be bad fathers. I think that Deb wasn't happy SAH and she would have found fault with anything she did.


11. Were you surprised when you learned who wrote the fifth letter? Who did you think wrote it while you were reading? Discuss the ways in which the author toys with the reader.

I was surprised when I learned who it was directed towards. I thought it was either Deb or eden, towards Joni.
There was 100% a red herring with Eden and Joni, but I never thought it was Trina. I thought that Deb could have hated Joni for "trapping" her but I mainly thought it was Eden. For a hot second I entertained a theory that it was Joni having a psychotic break and aimed it at the other 3 friends.

[angelashly]

On the alcohol point I almost felt that the author judges those who drink. That is why the ladies drank and "overindulged". It showed to me with the Eden attack and the fact that the mom was so quick to believe she drank too much

It was one of my biggest problems with the book

[RunsforWineandCarbs]

1. Yes, I think she's being dramatic. As adults you tend not to overshare. I hold a lot of stuff close at this age, even from my closest friends. I do have a friend or two that I open up too when needed.


2. I think her pov was skewed. She was stuck in the past and wasn't willing to accept who they've all grown into being. People change and she had an extremely hard time accepting it.



3. I was surprised she held it back considering how open she wanted everyone to be. But what she was going thru is such an emotional roller coaster, I can see how she didn't reveal it. She was struggling with something all her friends didn't seem to have a problem with - she felt left behind and that she was a failure - those are hard things to admit to others much less yourself.


4. No I wouldn't have shared that. I think this type of secret should remain a secret, especially if it involved a close friend.


5. I don't think friends should have a certain role in a friendship but it happens. Each person has their own strengths that they bring to a group and uses them. Over time those strengths can and will change so the roles should also change.


6. I was surprised. I believed she was pregnant; seemed logical that the family would hide the pregnancy. It happens. I was also surprised she didn't share the truth when given the chance. These girls were her closest friends for years, they've had each others backs always and I don't' think learning the truth would have changed how they felt about her. But with that said, her experience is hers alone and she is the only one who can decide if she wants to share or not.


7. No. I don't think they overindulged. I feel like the times that drinking was involved is pretty common. I didn't get the feeling that all they did was drink the days of their live's away. They were drinking during social occasions or during trying times.


8. I think they are different - I think all friendships are different. I still talk to the 4 people I met when we moved into a neighborhood when I was 5. I was with them for 7 years before we moved again across town. We grew apart, I made new friends but we were close enough that our paths kept crossing. We remained friends and still do to this day. We may not be as close anymore but we are still friends. I am closer to friends I made later in life, people that share the same interests, same lifestyle, etc.


9. Yes it's healthy. As long as it's for the right reasons. The competition between Joni and Eden in this instance, not so healthy. They were avoiding the real issue at heart.


10. I think as moms, we all feel this way at one time or another. Balancing working and a child is hard. Adding another child to it is even harder. Yes I think her feelings are valid. She should think about it. But also if she chose to share those feelings with her friends she could have seen a different pov that could have helped her feel better about her parenting. I think they still concern women more than men for the obvious reasons. But also that we feel pressured to do it all. Be the good wife, the perfect mom, the hard worker, the house cleaner, the cook, and to kiss all teh boo boos. but when do we take time for ourselves? Also, it's what we know, we mimic what we are used too. It's how our parents did it and their parents did it, etc. Up until recently, men weren't expected to handle all of that. They went to work to pay the bills. Things have changed, they are still changing. Moms are figuring out they aren't required to wear all those hats anymore, that the dad can wear them too. (I now think i sound like i am stuck in the 50's, I don't think i expressed myself well but it's still early...)


11. I had a feeling it was Deb. I remember thinking when i read the part about Joni remembering how Deb told her the story about her warts was pretty random in the story. I couldn't figure out the significance of it until it was revealed at the end and had an Ah ha moment.


I didn't think this book was as good as I thought it would be. It was an easy ready and wasn't horrible but I expected more from it I guess.

[lucilleaustero]

1) She is definitely being dramatic. She doesn't understand the changes her friends have gone through and is a bit OUT with her expectations. I used to share my secrets freely with a few select friends. But I really don't have too many secrets, these days.



2. Skewed, but this goes back to her being dramatic. She wants the excitement her friendships once brought her and seems to seek out situations that offer her a semblance of excitement, in her eyes only.





3. For th3 same reason she held back her issues with Kai. Prior to the info the letters provided, she felt her friends all "beat her in some life race. To admit fertility issues would be voicing defeat,
That her friends won some game she couldn't even play.




4. Private. I cannot see any situation where this information would not be damaging to someone. Maybe not right away, but it is pretty inevitable.



5. I believe that people do have roles in friendships hands that these roles contribute to the success of friendships. We all know who we can count on for different situations. I think ,as we age, and go down different paths, we tend to see less of the people whose roles were less important. Not in a cruel way, but when you are an adult, you generally want people around that will have your back and offer support over the go-out friend.




6. Very surprised. I thought her letter about the baby was heartbreaking. But it made sense once her secret came out. It is like she wanted the comfort her friends would give in that situation without having to mention her rape.




7. Yes. In vino veritas.




8. Yes. My childhood friendships were based on the superficial. Your are in th3 same class, you play the same sport, etc. We see with Joni that that all have last names that begin with C and are Scorpios.
Adult friendships tend to be harder to make because they are formed due to things more meaningful. I think sometimes meeting at a young age makes friendships relationships of nostalgia rather than relationships of substance.




9. Tempered competitiveness is a good thing in friendships. It can make you a better person and inspire. It becomes too much when the person that does not win cannot be happy for the winner and the person that does win does not recognize that everyone did a good job.




10. I think she is a mother that is putting to much pressure on herself to be the social media perfect mom. I think women only want others to see the beautiful,
the clean , the patient parent and that sociap media has eveytging to do with the pressure women put on themselves.




11. I was surprised. Deb seemed the most put together. I thought it was Eden. Due to her backstory, or the one she wrote in her letter, she would have a reason to be jealous over women that never had to go through that kind of trauma.