cnf
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Post by cnf on Apr 26, 2024 4:08:17 GMT -6
Oh noes. He's an octogenarian "billionaire". He should have nothing but time and money. God, if he had been convicted during one of his multiple impeachments we wouldn't even be here right now! This is allllllllll Mitch's fault I'm gonna go egg that fucker's house.
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Post by blurnette989 on Apr 26, 2024 4:12:09 GMT -6
I also blame Gerald Ford. He should never have pardoned Nixon. He should have allowed criminal proceedings so that we would already have precedent. It's all bullshit.
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elle
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Post by elle on Apr 26, 2024 6:26:24 GMT -6
Sigh. At least it's Friday.
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downwarddog
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Post by downwarddog on Apr 26, 2024 7:03:15 GMT -6
Remember when Dictator Dickhead said he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Ave and get away with it? Half of SCOTUS literally leaned back in their chair and said, "Go on...."
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kbw
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Post by kbw on Apr 26, 2024 7:58:54 GMT -6
I’ve been seeing lots of speculation about campuses cancelling graduations. The sad part is that most of these kids graduated hs in 2020 so their hs graduations if they existed were not normal and now colleges are canceling too.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Apr 26, 2024 8:03:08 GMT -6
Sigh. At least it's Friday. For a bunch of """originalists,""" they seem to forget the main reason why we fought a goddamn revolution
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Apr 26, 2024 8:06:42 GMT -6
Protests are ramping up at GW today. I saw a heavy police presence was gathering at the Mall in preparation.
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downwarddog
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Post by downwarddog on Apr 26, 2024 8:11:41 GMT -6
Protests are ramping up at GW today. I saw a heavy police presence was gathering at the Mall in preparation. Ugh. I'm surprised UVA hasn't joined in yet. (Ugh to the heavy police presence, not the protests)
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elle
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Post by elle on Apr 26, 2024 8:40:58 GMT -6
The way police are handling these protests is absolutely insane. But of course all they know how to do is escalate.
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elle
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Post by elle on Apr 26, 2024 8:53:00 GMT -6
Ugh, this is so spot on it almost physically hurts me.
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elle
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Post by elle on Apr 26, 2024 9:06:29 GMT -6
Oh goodie.
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Post by enchanted on Apr 26, 2024 9:08:17 GMT -6
Are we pandemicking again?
Because I really don't know if I can.
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elle
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Post by elle on Apr 26, 2024 9:20:38 GMT -6
Are we pandemicking again? Because I really don't know if I can. The CDC is once again being really cagey about things, so it's quite likely there are potential issues we're not being informed about. And this virus is currently much more widespread in cattle populations than previously reported, so... Additionally, H5N1 has been found in milk samples but they don't know (or aren't saying yet) if that presents a problem. The *hope* is that pasteurization takes care of the risks of infection, but no one has specific information on whether or not that's actually the case.
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downwarddog
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Post by downwarddog on Apr 26, 2024 9:23:47 GMT -6
Well. At least I still have my sourdough starter.
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byjove
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Post by byjove on Apr 26, 2024 9:28:39 GMT -6
Are we pandemicking again? Because I really don't know if I can. The CDC is once again being really cagey about things, so it's quite likely there are potential issues we're not being informed about. And this virus is currently much more widespread than previously reported, so... Additionally, H5N1 has been found in milk samples but they don't know (or aren't saying yet) if that presents a problem. The *hope* is that pasteurization takes care of the risks of infection, but no one has specific information on whether or not that's actually the case. YLE continues to be a great resource. yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/h5n1-update-we-have-to-do-better
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origami
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Post by origami on Apr 26, 2024 9:32:53 GMT -6
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origami
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Post by origami on Apr 26, 2024 9:33:35 GMT -6
Well. At least I still have my sourdough starter. This made me snort laugh. It’s the only emotion I can conjure up for a bird flu.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Apr 26, 2024 9:38:46 GMT -6
Well. At least I still have my sourdough starter. I just started sewing again so this tracks. Ugh.
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Post by babybean on Apr 26, 2024 10:31:18 GMT -6
I have lots of thoughts and don’t want to clog up the thread so I used a spoiler lol. Sorry in advance. It’s okay if it’s tl;dr. <snip>
I appreciate you be wiling to engage on this topic. I'm spoilering my wall of text as well. {Spoiler}I agree that not everything "pro-Palestians" do is antisemitic. Asking for a ceasefire, for peace, for an end to the suffering, for their own state (that doesn't involve obliterating Israel) isn't antisemitic. I don't believe all Palestinians are barbaric or violent, nor do I believe all Israelis (for example, the West bank settlers) are innocent. As far as anti-Zionism being antisemitic, I don't believe that all anti-Zionists hate or discriminate against Jews (there are Jewish anti-Zionists as well). So from that sense one could argue it isn't antisemitic. However, the definition of Zionism (per my understanding from Jewish friends) is that Jews should have a national homeland within the original territory of the Kingdoms of Israel/Judah (that doesn't necessarily mean all of the territory). Early Zionism didn't even conceive of this as a country in which they ruled, but just somewhere they could live in peace with equal rights (the idea of dividing the land came about, to my understanding, when the Arabs at the time would not agree to Jews having equal rights). There are indeed a lot of Christian "Zionists" who see the establishment of Israel as necessary to bring about the return of Christ and don't give a hoot about Jews (imo). But the majority of Jews are Zionists (according to the earlier definition) as well. Jewish identity and religion is deeply tied into Israel. Most Jews consider themselves indigenous to Israel. There are religious practices that can only be completed in Israel. The Jewish calendar is based on the agricultural cycle in the area. The Passover seder ends with "Next year in Jerusalem." So when Jews hear someone being "anti-Zionist," it feels like being against a deep part of their identity, culture, and religion. It also cannot be discounted that Hamas often refers to Israel as the "zionist entity" in an attempt to discredit it (and zionist has in the past been used as code to make it easier to discriminate against Jews in general in various countries.) I agree that "intifada" technically means "uprising," but for many Jews, it is intrinsically linked to painful memories of suffering and death for their people. I feel like if Jews were POC (some are but not the entire group), we wouldn't be policing what they could consider discriminatory and hurtful, but yet we do police it for Jews because we consider them "white." (I agree that most Jews in the US have white privilege and benefit from that, but they are still a minority group.) I don't attribute the crimes of Hamas to all Palestinians. Many innocent Palestinians have died. (I do believe that Hamas strategically ingrains itself in the civilian population in order to maximize civilian casualties to garner international sympathy, but that is not the fault of innocent civilians.) As far as death tolls, I feel like I read about them every day. I also feel like everything the Gazan leadership says is taken at face value but everything the Israeli leadership says is questioned (for my part, I don't trust Hamas or Netanyahu, but I believe both should be subject to equal scrutiny). Same goes with the "pro-Palestinian" camp and "pro-Israel" camp in the US. In my opinion, we shouldn't take the "these are peaceful protests" at their word while also ignoring the word of Jewish students that it isn't always peaceful. Based on history, I absolutely believe there has been police brutality of peaceful protestors and that isn't okay. I've also read pieces from professors who say that the protest chants are so loud that it is difficult to drown out during class (and again we come back to some of those chants like "intifada" and "from the river to the sea" having negative connotations for Jews. If the chant was something like "All lives matter" I don't think we would tell POC to not let it bother them so much.) As far as "where are the feminists," I feel that was specifically in relation to not calling out (or taking a long time to) the sexual crimes that were committed on October 7th (saying they weren't verified while they typically say to believe all women). I've haven't personally seen anyone say they shouldn't also speak out against the plight of Palestinians and would disagree with them if they did. Something I think we need to remember is that the holocaust wasn't that long ago - there are still survivors alive today. And it wasn't something that happened quickly, it was a slow buildup of anti-Jewish sentiment. So when Jews see the protests here and hear about Jewish students being harassed or feeling unsafe, it brings up that collective trauma - whether fairly or unfairly. The article I shared only brings up a few of the incidents I've read about (I've read of a lot more on Instagram but I didn't want to bring that up here because Instagram isn't necessarily a reliable source, but again I also don't believe it should be completely discounted out of hand. Things from TikTok have been shared here which I also don't believe is a reliable source. ETA here is one article I found: www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/columbia-university-protests-palestine/678159/)I think most Jews (definitely the ones I know) despise Netanyahu, are horrified and pained at the images coming out of Gaza, and want peace. But they also want safety. The fact that Hamas is still holding hostages complicates matters - they need to be freed, but that doesn't mean innocent people deserve suffering, and I don't think what Netanyahu is doing at this point is helping to get them back. As an article I read recently said, I believed that Biden would be able to reign in Netanyahu, I was even hopeful of the chance of a broader peace, but the longer this goes on that doesn't seem to be the case. (For the record, I hate we even need to discuss this as "pro-Palestinian" vs. "pro-Israel." Can't we just have a "pro-peace, a two-state solution, and safety for both peoples" camp?) I know you might not agree with everything I said, and that's fine. Thanks again for sharing your perspective in a constructive way. If you want to engage further I'm happy to, or if not that's fine too. This is genuine conversation to me and I’m not being snarky at all, in case that needs to be said. There are many nationless people, are they all ‘owed’ a nation state? Would you be okay with those Indigenous to Turtle Island taking your home claiming land back? Why or why not? Do you think Liberia was just and successful? In hindsight it’s easy to judge the “Arab No’s” but I understand not agreeing to give up your land. It’s also an oversimplification to say it’s the fault of Arab leaders that Israel ‘had’ to be established. Herzl wanted an “autonomous, self-governed state”, not just for Jews to be in their historic homeland. Zionist political violence was an issue for decades before Israel was born. Jewish identity and culture being tied to the land in Israel is beautiful, but saying how connected they are to the land doesn’t justify genocide, mass expulsion, destruction of land or other war crimes. A groups sovereignty should never come at the cost of this level of violence. That doesn’t even align with Indigenous teachings.
Some Arabs want a two state solution, some want one. The latter doesn’t mean kicking out all of the Jews though. Just like Arabs lives in Israel, why couldn’t Jews live in Palestine? (A baseline question, because there’s obvious complexity to this now). I do not agree things were entirely peaceful amongst the abrahamic religions in the Holy Land prior to 1948 like is commonly touted, but Jews coming back to Judea and kicking Palestinians out from the land they’ve always known is inexcusable. The common argument is that Palestinians are Arab foreigners, yet Mizrahi Jews (who make up the majority of Israel’s Jewish population today) and Palestinians are so genetically similar you often can’t tell them apart. So the people of the land who were Arabized are no longer Indigenous or entitled to be there, unless they’re Jewish, but Ashkenazi’s who were displaced for hundreds of years are? Make it make sense.
I understand ‘intifada’ can bring up trauma, but literally more Palestinians were killed by Israel during both. Are Palestinians calling for their deaths as well when chanting Intifada? Most Jews in Israel are POC, being POC doesn’t give people a pass. Calling for liberation isn’t an automatic declaration of violence against Jews. Can it be? Sure, but that’s not how the vast majority of people are using it. We can’t say that Jews get to define their terms but Arabs don’t. There’s nothing wrong with advocating against the antisemitism we’re seeing, we should be doing so, but acting like it is the norm adds fuel to the fire and puts peoples physical safety as risk.
To one of your final points, yeah, I hold the world’s “most moral army” to a higher standard than Hamas. Israel has the power, the army, the weapons, worldwide support and what feels like endless aid. The only reason most people care or even know about Palestinians right now is because Israeli’s were brutalized on October 7. The decades of abuse, violence, oppression etc at the hands of Israel wasn’t enough for Palestinians to get the spotlight. Yes we hear about the death tolls, but not with the same humanity. We don’t get to see most of their faces or hear their stories like we do the hostages (Who need to be released, of course. I cry for baby Kfir often.). Not to equate Hamas to all Palestinians, just saying I don’t hold an IRGC proxy to the same standard as Israel. You can’t infer superiority as the only democracy in the ME and then whine when held to a higher standard.
The footage I’m seeing, the personal accounts I’m reading and the people I know on the ground are saying the vast majority of what is going on is peaceful. (Minus the police brutality, including the snipers now on top of buildings), and most haven’t seen confrontations let alone antisemitic violence. Peoples trauma isn’t their fault but it is their responsibility and we don’t get to project on everyone around us. In fact it minimizes the seriousness of actual hate crimes. Just because something gives you pause or makes you uncomfortable doesn’t make it hate speech. People have to truly listen to one another and find common ground. I don’t think most are capable of this at this point and it’s devastating.
I’m dealing with health issues so have had to take a step back from consuming so much information on the conflict in recent weeks. I can’t imagine having to *live* it directly.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Apr 26, 2024 10:33:07 GMT -6
The way police are handling these protests is absolutely insane. But of course all they know how to do is escalate. They straight up slammed her face into the pavement
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Post by babybean on Apr 26, 2024 10:33:50 GMT -6
Well. At least I still have my sourdough starter. literal lol. I started mine post pandemic but she’s looking extra good right now.
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addymac
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Post by addymac on Apr 26, 2024 11:13:47 GMT -6
These students have a right to protest - to criticize governmental policies and to ask for peace. But I've also heard some concerning things that make some of these protestors seem not necessarily just anti-war but anti-Israel existence and in some cases antisemitic. Particularly at Columbia, there have been Jewish students targeted with verbal and physical harassment, and Jewish students saying they feel unsafe on campus. (A rabbi there suggested Jewish students leave and finish the year remotely because of safety concerns.) I have Jewish friends who have high schoolers who are rethinking college applications because they are worried their kids won't be safe. I don't think this should be ignored either. I felt like this was a balanced take: nymag.com/intelligencer/article/columbia-protest-anti-semitism-campus-israel-jewish-students-justice-palestine.htmlAt Columbia’s protest: www.instagram.com/reel/C6Jb1KyLoIP/?igsh=b2ptOXAyOGE3N3JmObviously everyone’s experience can be different but what is actually seen on camera and on the ground vs what people “heard” seems to be a stark contrast. Additionally, seeing as how Columbia’s administration has been handling the protests, I personally don’t put a lot of stock into the campus not being a safe space for Jewish students. I would feel significantly more unsafe as a protesting student who was attacked by police and had all my personal belongings thrown out and destroyed by Admin.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Apr 26, 2024 11:13:57 GMT -6
Maybe Kendall Jenner can give the cops a pepsi (God that was an awful ad)
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AmyG
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Post by AmyG on Apr 26, 2024 11:36:54 GMT -6
I’ve been seeing lots of speculation about campuses cancelling graduations. The sad part is that most of these kids graduated hs in 2020 so their hs graduations if they existed were not normal and now colleges are canceling too. It's really hard on those atudents to not have graduations like normal. Even though they are not kids really anymore it's a big milestone.
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Post by angelashly on Apr 26, 2024 12:47:05 GMT -6
Yes! I’m also so proud of the students at UT. Many were arrested and assaulted. Of course they’re being called pro Hamas. Not so shockingly, Abbott and Patrick are all over it. The treatment of the protesters across the country have me all in my feelings. I want to hug them all
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klw
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Post by klw on Apr 26, 2024 12:47:14 GMT -6
Are we pandemicking again? Because I really don't know if I can. Emotionally i cannot do another pandemic. However, I admit that I see my photo memories show up and I miss the simplicity of our days in the beginning. We spent so much time playing outside, doing crafts, etc
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downwarddog
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Post by downwarddog on Apr 26, 2024 12:48:35 GMT -6
TW FOR ANIMAL DEATH:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The top contender for Trump's VP Kristi Noem wrote in her book that her one year old puppy was "untrainable" and "useless as a hunting dog", so she took him to a construction site and shot him.
Then she went home and shot one of her "disgusting" goats she didn't like.
W.T.A.F.
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Post by angelashly on Apr 26, 2024 12:56:54 GMT -6
These students have a right to protest - to criticize governmental policies and to ask for peace. But I've also heard some concerning things that make some of these protestors seem not necessarily just anti-war but anti-Israel existence and in some cases antisemitic. Particularly at Columbia, there have been Jewish students targeted with verbal and physical harassment, and Jewish students saying they feel unsafe on campus. (A rabbi there suggested Jewish students leave and finish the year remotely because of safety concerns.) I have Jewish friends who have high schoolers who are rethinking college applications because they are worried their kids won't be safe. I don't think this should be ignored either. I felt like this was a balanced take: nymag.com/intelligencer/article/columbia-protest-anti-semitism-campus-israel-jewish-students-justice-palestine.htmlAt Columbia’s protest: www.instagram.com/reel/C6Jb1KyLoIP/?igsh=b2ptOXAyOGE3N3JmObviously everyone’s experience can be different but what is actually seen on camera and on the ground vs what people “heard” seems to be a stark contrast. Additionally, seeing as how Columbia’s administration has been handling the protests, I personally don’t put a lot of stock into the campus not being a safe space for Jewish students. I would feel significantly more unsafe as a protesting student who was attacked by police and had all my personal belongings thrown out and destroyed by Admin. And we need to stop the mentality that protesting means anti the other side of the issue. Pro Palestine protests does not equal anti semitism which is what I keep being said and just ::sigh:: *yes of course there are always exceptions I’m not saying there isn’t but 9/10 it’s not the case
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Post by enchanted on Apr 26, 2024 13:17:13 GMT -6
downwarddog FUCK HER. And sadly, that probably gets her points in his potential VP pros column.
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cnf
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Post by cnf on Apr 26, 2024 13:35:35 GMT -6
I’ve been seeing lots of speculation about campuses cancelling graduations. The sad part is that most of these kids graduated hs in 2020 so their hs graduations if they existed were not normal and now colleges are canceling too. I had that same realization today about the years and the graduation class.
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