|
Post by enchanted on Oct 7, 2023 14:27:57 GMT -6
It's always "Israel has the right to defend themselves", but not Palestine. I am in no way condoning taking hostages the way Hamas did in this instance and in previous instances. Israel has been encroaching on Palestinian territory for quite some time. How come Palestine has no right to defend themselves from that (again, in a way that does not involve hurting innocent civilians)?
Ugh. I know I've said it before, but we* need to stop messing around in the Middle East. I don't know what the right decision was after WWII, but all the people living there are dealing with the aftermath of what was done and will be until who knows when.
*We meaning non-Middle Eastern nations/peoples.
|
|
willow
Ruby
Posts: 19,630 Likes: 125,285
|
Post by willow on Oct 7, 2023 17:10:48 GMT -6
I agree with you for sure enchanted. I don’t have a good answer but I hate all of it. I understand the deep historical roots of this conflict and all that but man it feels like it is a problem that can’t be fixed at this point. 😔
|
|
|
Post by babybean on Oct 8, 2023 8:36:15 GMT -6
I’m sickened by world leaders voicing support for Israel. It is comical that they’ve declared war like it hasn’t been 75 years of sheer hell for Palestinians. I have friends with family still living there and their desperation and helplessness makes me queasy. This isn’t a cause you can even really donate to. We literally have to watch and pray.
(I also want to be clear that being anti Zionist does not make you antisemitic. Those are strategically equated to avoid critique. Many Jews are anti-Zionist. I respect and have love for people from all religions and walks of life.)
|
|
|
Post by babybean on Oct 8, 2023 10:02:28 GMT -6
I also want to clarify that I’m obviously not okay with Hamas taking women, children and other innocent civilians. I value human life. With that said, we all know how horribly this is going to go for innocent Palestinians. They don’t have billions in funding or an iron dome. I will forever pray for a free Palestine.
|
|
origami
Amethyst
Posts: 6,443 Likes: 46,619
|
Post by origami on Oct 8, 2023 11:48:43 GMT -6
I also want to clarify that I’m obviously not okay with Hamas taking women, children and other innocent civilians. I value human life. With that said, we all know how horribly this is going to go for innocent Palestinians. They don’t have billions in funding or an iron dome. I will forever pray for a free Palestine. When I saw the news I just said "oh no." Because they are going to fire bomb the fuck outta Gaza but try to act like heroes because of it.
|
|
|
Post by SweetPotato on Oct 8, 2023 19:50:52 GMT -6
I understand the conflict Is complex. I have always questioned the US position because it seems most of the world feels differently.
But civilians being mowed down at a music festival and children taken hostage isn’t something I can get behind.
ETA I’m not saying anyone said they’re ok with it in here. But the vibe of the thread I think is probably pretty upsetting to those who are and have family on the Jewish/Israeli side right now
|
|
|
Post by babybean on Oct 8, 2023 21:24:22 GMT -6
I understand the conflict Is complex. I have always questioned the US position because it seems most of the world feels differently. But civilians being mowed down at a music festival and children taken hostage isn’t something I can get behind. ETA I’m not saying anyone said they’re ok with it in here. But the vibe of the thread I think is probably pretty upsetting to those who are and have family on the Jewish/Israeli side right now Who is getting behind it though? You can have compassion for Jewish folks and not be in support of antisemitism or the brutalization of women and children in Israel while also holding Zionism to account. Palestinian women and children are not offered this same grace and have not been for the last 75+ years. They live in an open air prison and will be the ones punished for what Hamas did and much of the world will cheer it on. Why is their pain always cast aside while world leaders, media and celebrities show support for Israel? I see many Jewish folks and Jewish organizations that are mourning what is happening while also supporting Palestine right now. You can do both.
|
|
Cher
Global Moderator
BMB, GD, Special Interests
Posts: 57,567 Likes: 442,342
|
Post by Cher on Oct 8, 2023 21:45:52 GMT -6
You can absolutely be pro-Palestine and condemn what is happening in Israel. Condemn Hamas. Palestine =/= Hamas. If people are scared for what is going to happen to Palestinian people, it’s because of Hamas. Right now, Israeli people are being murdered and gang raped. Their children are being kidnapped. I have personal friends that are sending videos as they hide from terror. We can’t justify that. Regardless of any past conflict or any potential future conflict, Hamas are terrorists.
|
|
|
Post by SweetPotato on Oct 8, 2023 21:50:02 GMT -6
I understand the conflict Is complex. I have always questioned the US position because it seems most of the world feels differently. But civilians being mowed down at a music festival and children taken hostage isn’t something I can get behind. ETA I’m not saying anyone said they’re ok with it in here. But the vibe of the thread I think is probably pretty upsetting to those who are and have family on the Jewish/Israeli side right now Who is getting behind it though? You can have compassion for Jewish folks and not be in support of antisemitism or the brutalization of women and children in Israel while also holding Zionism to account. Palestinian women and children are not offered this same grace and have not been for the last 75+ years. They live in an open air prison and will be the ones punished for what Hamas did and much of the world will cheer it on. Why is their pain always cast aside while world leaders, media and celebrities show support for Israel? I see many Jewish folks and Jewish organizations that are mourning what is happening while also supporting Palestine right now. You can do both. I agree but don’t think today is the day to hold Zionism to account. Today Hamas are holding children hostage. My point was that it can be both but the thread doesn’t read as “being both”’
|
|
|
Post by babybean on Oct 8, 2023 22:16:53 GMT -6
Who is getting behind it though? You can have compassion for Jewish folks and not be in support of antisemitism or the brutalization of women and children in Israel while also holding Zionism to account. Palestinian women and children are not offered this same grace and have not been for the last 75+ years. They live in an open air prison and will be the ones punished for what Hamas did and much of the world will cheer it on. Why is their pain always cast aside while world leaders, media and celebrities show support for Israel? I see many Jewish folks and Jewish organizations that are mourning what is happening while also supporting Palestine right now. You can do both. I agree but don’t think today is the day to hold Zionism to account. Today Hamas are holding children hostage. My point was that it can be both but the thread doesn’t read as “being both”’ So when would the day be? Israel literally holds hundreds of Palestinian children in jail every year. They are subjected to torture and abuse. Palestinians receive limited water and electricity and don’t have freedom of movement. They live under incomprehensible occupation. Hamas isn’t Palestine. I absolutely condemn rape and abuse of women and children, in case that needs to be restated.
|
|
|
Post by babybean on Oct 8, 2023 22:27:49 GMT -6
You can absolutely be pro-Palestine and condemn what is happening in Israel. Condemn Hamas. Palestine =/= Hamas. If people are scared for what is going to happen to Palestinian people, it’s because of Hamas. Right now, Israeli people are being murdered and gang raped. Their children are being kidnapped. I have personal friends that are sending videos as they hide from terror. We can’t justify that. Regardless of any past conflict or any potential future conflict, Hamas are terrorists. I disagree because it happens to Palestinians daily, regardless of Hamas. The current increased onslaught in Gaza was triggered by what’s happened but this is a continual thing and Palestinians shed the most blood. Again to be very clear, I feel sick about what Hamas is doing to innocent people and sincerely pray for the safety of your friends and everyone on the ground there.
|
|
|
Post by SweetPotato on Oct 8, 2023 22:46:59 GMT -6
I agree but don’t think today is the day to hold Zionism to account. Today Hamas are holding children hostage. My point was that it can be both but the thread doesn’t read as “being both”’ So when would the day be? Israel literally holds hundreds of Palestinian children in jail every year. They are subjected to torture and abuse. Palestinians receive limited water and electricity and don’t have freedom of movement. They live under incomprehensible occupation. Hamas isn’t Palestine. I absolutely condemn rape and abuse of women and children, in case that needs to be restated. I don’t think anyone is trying to downplay or excuse what the Palestinians are/have been suffering through. Some of this thread reads as trying to excuse what the Israelis are suffering through. Again - my point is that it can be both. But this thread read one-sided to me.
|
|
|
Post by babybean on Oct 9, 2023 3:30:25 GMT -6
So when would the day be? Israel literally holds hundreds of Palestinian children in jail every year. They are subjected to torture and abuse. Palestinians receive limited water and electricity and don’t have freedom of movement. They live under incomprehensible occupation. Hamas isn’t Palestine. I absolutely condemn rape and abuse of women and children, in case that needs to be restated. I don’t think anyone is trying to downplay or excuse what the Palestinians are/have been suffering through. Some of this thread reads as trying to excuse what the Israelis are suffering through. Again - my point is that it can be both. But this thread read one-sided to me. I understand that. The truth is uncomfortable though and this situation isn’t happening in a vacuum. Specifically in this thread I hear people expressing sympathy while also discussing relevant viewpoints. That’s not one sided to me, but I get how it can feel hurtful. IMO you can’t discuss this as an isolated incident. The history is relevant and matters. Acknowledging the conditions that brought us here isn’t excusing it. A lot of arguing points on this topic only go one way. We can’t say it’s insensitive to discuss because Israeli women and children are being harmed but then ignore that the same is happening on the other side on a continual basis. How insensitive is that to continually hush Palestinian realities? These things are happening currently, not in the past. I’m seeing Hamas’ actions being used as an example for why Palestinian abuse has continually happened and how we shouldn’t say anything as Israel retaliates now. That isn’t right to me. This war is not being fought on even ground and we know retaliation is going to be massive and extreme. I feel the same about Kashmir and am vocal about that as well. I’m Indian. It’s a painful and complicated reality for me so I have absolute sympathy for what the Jewish community is feeling.
|
|
Cher
Global Moderator
BMB, GD, Special Interests
Posts: 57,567 Likes: 442,342
|
Post by Cher on Oct 9, 2023 4:27:50 GMT -6
You can absolutely be pro-Palestine and condemn what is happening in Israel. Condemn Hamas. Palestine =/= Hamas. If people are scared for what is going to happen to Palestinian people, it’s because of Hamas. Right now, Israeli people are being murdered and gang raped. Their children are being kidnapped. I have personal friends that are sending videos as they hide from terror. We can’t justify that. Regardless of any past conflict or any potential future conflict, Hamas are terrorists. I disagree because it happens to Palestinians daily, regardless of Hamas. The current increased onslaught in Gaza was triggered by what’s happened but this is a continual thing and Palestinians shed the most blood. Again to be very clear, I feel sick about what Hamas is doing to innocent people and sincerely pray for the safety of your friends and everyone on the ground there. It’s not a “regardless of Hamas” situation. Hamas killed people on-site and then paraded their dead bodies around. We can’t talk about the situation without talking about them. The conflict is long and ugly. I don’t know how it ever resolves. But what happened this weekend does not happen daily. You can be against Israel’s treatment of Palestine and also against Hamas. Hamas also kills and tortures Palestinians. There’s no winning for Palestine. My heart breaks for them as well.
|
|
|
Post by babybean on Oct 9, 2023 4:44:11 GMT -6
I disagree because it happens to Palestinians daily, regardless of Hamas. The current increased onslaught in Gaza was triggered by what’s happened but this is a continual thing and Palestinians shed the most blood. Again to be very clear, I feel sick about what Hamas is doing to innocent people and sincerely pray for the safety of your friends and everyone on the ground there. It’s not a “regardless of Hamas” situation. Hamas killed people on-site and then paraded their dead bodies around. We can’t talk about the situation without talking about them. The conflict is long and ugly. I don’t know how it ever resolves. But what happened this weekend does not happen daily. You can be against Israel’s treatment of Palestine and also against Hamas. Hamas also kills and tortures Palestinians. There’s no winning for Palestine. My heart breaks for them as well. I didn’t say we should disregard what Hamas is doing. I said/meant Palestinian oppression predates Hamas existence. To say what they’re going to face now is Hamas’ doing is not entirely honest or fair.
|
|
Cher
Global Moderator
BMB, GD, Special Interests
Posts: 57,567 Likes: 442,342
|
Post by Cher on Oct 9, 2023 4:57:50 GMT -6
It’s not a “regardless of Hamas” situation. Hamas killed people on-site and then paraded their dead bodies around. We can’t talk about the situation without talking about them. The conflict is long and ugly. I don’t know how it ever resolves. But what happened this weekend does not happen daily. You can be against Israel’s treatment of Palestine and also against Hamas. Hamas also kills and tortures Palestinians. There’s no winning for Palestine. My heart breaks for them as well. I didn’t say we should disregard what Hamas is doing. I said/meant Palestinian oppression predates Hamas existence. To say what they’re going to face now is Hamas’ doing is not entirely honest or fair. Of course. This conflict goes back to another century. I’m not defending every move Israel has made over those years. But in this moment, Israel has the right to act when their children are literally being held by Hamas. Unfortunately, Palestine will suffer because of Hamas’ actions. Palestine will never have a chance as long as they are governed by an anti-Semitic, misogynistic, anti-LGBTQ regime.
|
|
|
Post by babybean on Oct 9, 2023 6:14:19 GMT -6
I didn’t say we should disregard what Hamas is doing. I said/meant Palestinian oppression predates Hamas existence. To say what they’re going to face now is Hamas’ doing is not entirely honest or fair. Of course. This conflict goes back to another century. I’m not defending every move Israel has made over those years. But in this moment, Israel has the right to act when their children are literally being held by Hamas. Unfortunately, Palestine will suffer because of Hamas’ actions. Palestine will never have a chance as long as they are governed by an anti-Semitic, misogynistic, anti-LGBTQ regime. Israel gets to continue war crimes against Palestine because of Hamas? Got it.
|
|
Cher
Global Moderator
BMB, GD, Special Interests
Posts: 57,567 Likes: 442,342
|
Post by Cher on Oct 9, 2023 6:35:35 GMT -6
Of course. This conflict goes back to another century. I’m not defending every move Israel has made over those years. But in this moment, Israel has the right to act when their children are literally being held by Hamas. Unfortunately, Palestine will suffer because of Hamas’ actions. Palestine will never have a chance as long as they are governed by an anti-Semitic, misogynistic, anti-LGBTQ regime. Israel gets to continue war crimes against Palestine because of Hamas? Got it. Where did I say that? I said they can act because Hamas is actively holding at least 100 captives, including children, including Holocaust survivors, including Americans. What do you propose they do? I know you think it’s “comical” that they’re at war. But, I don’t see any other choice at this point. If there were videos of my child being beaten by a terrorist regime or my sister’s naked body was being paraded through the streets, being spat on, I hope there was action taken.
|
|
|
Post by babybean on Oct 9, 2023 6:52:03 GMT -6
Israel gets to continue war crimes against Palestine because of Hamas? Got it. Where did I say that? I said they can act because Hamas is actively holding at least 100 captives, including children, including Holocaust survivors, including Americans. What do you propose they do? I know you think it’s “comical” that they’re at war. But, I don’t see any other choice at this point. If there were videos of my child being beaten by a terrorist regime or my sister’s naked body was being paraded through the streets, being spat on, I hope there was action taken. Sorry you think it’s funny, I don’t. what in the actual fuck are you talking about? I don’t find this funny at all. Declaring ‘war’ when it has been war and destruction for Palestinians for decades is what I was referencing. What privileged bubble do you live in? You know Israel ‘acting’ means bombing Palestine to near obliteration. There are millions of people there without bomb shelters to protect them. We can’t contact friends there because Israel has cut power. I truly don’t think you are comprehending what decades of oppressive occupation is. The casualty toll for Palestinians is significantly higher than Israel and will absolutely pass the new devastating loss Israeli civilians have seen this weekend. Where is your desire to ‘act’ for them? Half of their population is under 25, all they know is fear and occupation in the open air prison they live in. This shit isn’t only happening when there are headlines. It feels very flippant to say ‘yeah Palestinians are going to suffer cause of Hamas’ without regard to what created these conditions.
|
|
Cher
Global Moderator
BMB, GD, Special Interests
Posts: 57,567 Likes: 442,342
|
Post by Cher on Oct 9, 2023 7:03:01 GMT -6
Where did I say that? I said they can act because Hamas is actively holding at least 100 captives, including children, including Holocaust survivors, including Americans. What do you propose they do? I know you think it’s “comical” that they’re at war. But, I don’t see any other choice at this point. If there were videos of my child being beaten by a terrorist regime or my sister’s naked body was being paraded through the streets, being spat on, I hope there was action taken. Sorry you think it’s funny, I don’t. what in the actual fuck are you talking about? I don’t find this funny at all. Declaring ‘war’ when it has been war and destruction for Palestinians for decades is what I was referencing. What privileged bubble do you live in? You know Israel ‘acting’ means bombing Palestine to near obliteration. There are millions of people there without bomb shelters to protect them. I can’t contact friends there because Israel has cut power. I truly don’t think you are comprehending what decades of oppressive occupation is. The casualty toll for Palestinians is significantly higher than Israel and will absolutely pass the new devastating loss Israel civilians have seen this weekend. Where is your desire to ‘act’ for them? Half of their population is under 25, all they know is fear and occupation in the open air prison they live in. This shit isn’t only happening when there are headlines. It feels very flippant to say ‘yeah Palestinians are going to suffer cause of Hamas’ without disregard to what created these conditions. I don’t know why you’re talking to me like that. I don’t exist in the headlines. I have always lived in a predominantly Jewish area. I attended a Jewish school. I have friends in Israel right now. I also have many Jewish family and friends that are pro-Palestine. But they can separate that what happened this weekend was an act of terror. I ask again, what do you propose Israel does? Lay down and allow their children be taken? You seem so committed to defending Palestine that it reads that you are brushing off the terror attack that took place. Palestine will never be free as long as Hamas is in power and you keep glossing over that. They will continue to make women property, murder gay people, torture those who do not fall in line. The Israeli-Palestine conflict is storied and horrible. I don’t know how they ever achieve peace. But there will never be a chance at that as long as there is a terrorist regime at the wheel.
|
|
willow
Ruby
Posts: 19,630 Likes: 125,285
|
Post by willow on Oct 9, 2023 7:13:05 GMT -6
I think I made it pretty clear in my posts that I feel sick about what is happening for both sides of innocent civilians, so I take umbrage at the comments that we are one-sided in this situation.
|
|
|
Post by babybean on Oct 9, 2023 7:14:06 GMT -6
what in the actual fuck are you talking about? I don’t find this funny at all. Declaring ‘war’ when it has been war and destruction for Palestinians for decades is what I was referencing. What privileged bubble do you live in? You know Israel ‘acting’ means bombing Palestine to near obliteration. There are millions of people there without bomb shelters to protect them. I can’t contact friends there because Israel has cut power. I truly don’t think you are comprehending what decades of oppressive occupation is. The casualty toll for Palestinians is significantly higher than Israel and will absolutely pass the new devastating loss Israel civilians have seen this weekend. Where is your desire to ‘act’ for them? Half of their population is under 25, all they know is fear and occupation in the open air prison they live in. This shit isn’t only happening when there are headlines. It feels very flippant to say ‘yeah Palestinians are going to suffer cause of Hamas’ without disregard to what created these conditions. I don’t know why you’re talking to me like that. I don’t exist in the headlines. I have always lived in a predominantly Jewish area. I attended a Jewish school. I have friends in Israel right now. I also have many Jewish family and friends that are pro-Palestine. But they can separate that what happened this weekend was an act of terror. I ask again, what do you propose Israel does? Lay down and allow their children be taken? You seem so committed to defending Palestine that it reads that you are brushing off the terror attack that took place. Palestine will never be free as long as Hamas is in power and you keep glossing over that. They will continue to make women property, murder gay people, torture those who do not fall in line. The Israeli-Palestine conflict is storied and horrible. I don’t know how they ever achieve peace. But there will never be a chance at that as long as there is a terrorist regime at the wheel. Talking to you like what? Saying I find this funny is disgusting and I reacted to that. I have literally said I am sickened by what Hamas has done and expressed sympathy and compassion for innocent Israeli civilians and the Jewish community as a whole. I’m not glossing over anything. It feels like you’re looking at this as an independent event, and it’s not. There is context that matters. Hamas is not the sole reason Palestine isn’t free.
|
|
Cher
Global Moderator
BMB, GD, Special Interests
Posts: 57,567 Likes: 442,342
|
Post by Cher on Oct 9, 2023 7:27:26 GMT -6
I don’t know why you’re talking to me like that. I don’t exist in the headlines. I have always lived in a predominantly Jewish area. I attended a Jewish school. I have friends in Israel right now. I also have many Jewish family and friends that are pro-Palestine. But they can separate that what happened this weekend was an act of terror. I ask again, what do you propose Israel does? Lay down and allow their children be taken? You seem so committed to defending Palestine that it reads that you are brushing off the terror attack that took place. Palestine will never be free as long as Hamas is in power and you keep glossing over that. They will continue to make women property, murder gay people, torture those who do not fall in line. The Israeli-Palestine conflict is storied and horrible. I don’t know how they ever achieve peace. But there will never be a chance at that as long as there is a terrorist regime at the wheel. Talking to you like what? Saying I find this funny is disgusting and I reacted to that. I have literally said I am sickened by what Hamas has done and expressed sympathy and compassion for innocent Israeli civilians and the Jewish community as a whole. I’m not glossing over anything. It feels like you’re looking at this as an independent event, and it’s not. There is context that matters. Hamas is not the sole reason Palestine isn’t free. I said you found it comical that they were at war. Which is literally what you said. And I keep asking, what should Israel’s response be while Hamas holds and tortures innocent children and women. There’s no context for murdering entire families just because they are Jewish. There’s no context for ripping babies away from their mothers and holding them captive. There is no context for gang raping women on the street. There is no justification for what happened this weekend. You can feel however you want to feel about the Palestine/Israeli conflict. But there’s no backstory for terror attacks. Hamas isn’t Palestine. Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians. Hamas hates Jews. This isn’t about Gaza. This is about hate.
|
|
|
Post by lucilleaustero on Oct 9, 2023 7:41:26 GMT -6
This is fucking awful. I remember reading the Amnesty International study that determined the Israeli policies towards the Palestinians were akin the apartheid in South Africa. And I don't know enough to know what was accurate and what was inaccurate, but it was such a sad read. And then seeing the pictures yesterday of Israeli teenagers in body bags and waking up to seeing a Palestinian father weeping over the body of his toddler and the absolute rage being my felt on both sides is understandable.
I don't know much, but if I was Israeli and my child was killed for political terrorism while at a raid, I would go scorched earth.
If I was a Palestinian parent and my child was killed in the Israeli bombing of "human animals" I would go scorched earth.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2023 7:49:12 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by babybean on Oct 9, 2023 7:53:02 GMT -6
Talking to you like what? Saying I find this funny is disgusting and I reacted to that. I have literally said I am sickened by what Hamas has done and expressed sympathy and compassion for innocent Israeli civilians and the Jewish community as a whole. I’m not glossing over anything. It feels like you’re looking at this as an independent event, and it’s not. There is context that matters. Hamas is not the sole reason Palestine isn’t free. I said you found it comical that they were at war. Which is literally what you said. And I keep asking, what should Israel’s response be while Hamas holds and tortures innocent children and women. There’s no context for murdering entire families just because they are Jewish. There’s no context for ripping babies away from their mothers and holding them captive. There is no context for gang raping women on the street. There is no justification for what happened this weekend. You can feel however you want to feel about the Palestine/Israeli conflict. But there’s no backstory for terror attacks. Hamas isn’t Palestine. Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians. Hamas hates Jews. This isn’t about Gaza. This is about hate. I said comical as in absurd, outrageous or ludicrous not haha funny. You knew that though. I’m curious what it’s called when Israel is committing atrocities? Taking children, murdering entire families, bombing indiscriminately, so on and so forth. I’ve condemned what Hamas has done. It isn’t separate from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict though. That doesn’t mean I’m justifying it and I renounce the idea that that’s what I’m trying to do.
|
|
Cher
Global Moderator
BMB, GD, Special Interests
Posts: 57,567 Likes: 442,342
|
Post by Cher on Oct 9, 2023 8:08:28 GMT -6
My understanding is that they are all being held for crimes. So, the ones there for things like … terrorism should probably remain prisoners. Children being held for things like throwing rocks is sad and I don’t agree with it. I assume there’s not a country in the Middle East that allows children to throw rocks at soldiers. But, from my privileged position in the Western World, I don’t like it. Israel has traded prisoners a number of times with Palestine and I assume they will do it this time. A woman being held captive and raped by Hamas or a 3 month old baby being held by Hamas, simply for being Israeli doesn’t seem the same to me as Israel jailing people suspected of terrorism. What do you think Israel should do about the women and children being held by Hamas?
|
|
Cher
Global Moderator
BMB, GD, Special Interests
Posts: 57,567 Likes: 442,342
|
Post by Cher on Oct 9, 2023 8:21:48 GMT -6
I said you found it comical that they were at war. Which is literally what you said. And I keep asking, what should Israel’s response be while Hamas holds and tortures innocent children and women. There’s no context for murdering entire families just because they are Jewish. There’s no context for ripping babies away from their mothers and holding them captive. There is no context for gang raping women on the street. There is no justification for what happened this weekend. You can feel however you want to feel about the Palestine/Israeli conflict. But there’s no backstory for terror attacks. Hamas isn’t Palestine. Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians. Hamas hates Jews. This isn’t about Gaza. This is about hate. I said comical as in absurd, outrageous or ludicrous not haha funny. You knew that though. I’m curious what it’s called when Israel is committing atrocities? Taking children, murdering entire families, bombing indiscriminately, so on and so forth. I’ve condemned what Hamas has done. It isn’t separate from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict though. That doesn’t mean I’m justifying it and I renounce the idea that that’s what I’m trying to do. I took issue with calling it comical. And I’m asking again, what is Israel supposed to do while Hamas holds their women and children? I’m familiar with the conflict. It’s not a one-way street. Palestine and Israel have been killing each other for decades. They essentially are always teetering on the brink of war. It’s not okay for either side to do it. But I think there’s a conversation about Gaza. And then there’s a conversation about a terroristic organization who hates Jews.
|
|
origami
Amethyst
Posts: 6,443 Likes: 46,619
|
Post by origami on Oct 9, 2023 8:46:02 GMT -6
My understanding is that they are all being held for crimes. So, the ones there for things like … terrorism should probably remain prisoners. Children being held for things like throwing rocks is sad and I don’t agree with it. I assume there’s not a country in the Middle East that allows children to throw rocks at soldiers. But, from my privileged position in the Western World, I don’t like it. Israel has traded prisoners a number of times with Palestine and I assume they will do it this time. A woman being held captive and raped by Hamas or a 3 month old baby being held by Hamas, simply for being Israeli doesn’t seem the same to me as Israel jailing people suspected of terrorism. What do you think Israel should do about the women and children being held by Hamas? I'm going to take care with how I say this because I don't have time to be here today, but this feels very similar to talking points about black men in America should have just complied. Palestinian children have been imprisoned, tortured, and slaughtered at a rate far exceeding this event. This event is awful. Hamas is awful. However Hamas won't pay, Palestinians will. They are called animals. The current Zionist regime would prefer that Palestine didnt exist. 100 children being held is unconscionable. Saying "I hear those 4000 were being held for crimes," Feels like a convenient statement. Palestine has been attacked continuously for generations. Even recently. We are allowed to express concern that world leaders are saying retaliation is ok when they barely breathe a whisper when it happens unprovoked the other direction.
|
|
Cher
Global Moderator
BMB, GD, Special Interests
Posts: 57,567 Likes: 442,342
|
Post by Cher on Oct 9, 2023 8:59:01 GMT -6
My understanding is that they are all being held for crimes. So, the ones there for things like … terrorism should probably remain prisoners. Children being held for things like throwing rocks is sad and I don’t agree with it. I assume there’s not a country in the Middle East that allows children to throw rocks at soldiers. But, from my privileged position in the Western World, I don’t like it. Israel has traded prisoners a number of times with Palestine and I assume they will do it this time. A woman being held captive and raped by Hamas or a 3 month old baby being held by Hamas, simply for being Israeli doesn’t seem the same to me as Israel jailing people suspected of terrorism. What do you think Israel should do about the women and children being held by Hamas? I'm going to take care with how I say this because I don't have time to be here today, but this feels very similar to talking points about black men in America should have just complied. Palestinian children have been imprisoned, tortured, and slaughtered at a rate far exceeding this event. This event is awful. Hamas is awful. However Hamas won't pay, Palestinians will. They are called animals. The current Zionist regime would prefer that Palestine didnt exist. 100 children being held is unconscionable. Saying "I hear those 4000 were being held for crimes," Feels like a convenient statement. Palestine has been attacked continuously for generations. Even recently. We are allowed to express concern that world leaders are saying retaliation is ok when they barely breathe a whisper when it happens unprovoked the other direction. I didn’t “hear” they committed crimes. A number of prisoners have been released over the years, their names are known. They are members of Hamas. They went right back to Hamas. I am not sure what that has to do with the fact that Black men are unfairly and disproportionately jailed in this country. I don’t think members of a terror organization that beheads gay people should walk free. I don’t think Black men should be jailed over a dime bag. I don’t think children should be jailed. All of those things can be true. I am heartbroken that this resulted in more Palestinian deaths. They didn’t ask for this. I keep asking what the solution is but no one can tell me. But surely one cannot sit back while women and children are being held captive. Videos of toddlers crying out for their mothers posted on social media. Calls made to their families to hear their daughter’s rape. It’s horrific. Never once have I blamed Palestine. I blame Hamas. They brought this on. Palestine will never be free while Hamas is in power. And no one will be safe. That’s it. Blame Hamas.
|
|