Boy moms, come in.

[theoriginalbean]

Oh man, I really want to talk about this! Saving for after lunch.

[theseaword]

I have been working on a lot of this in how I raise my boys. Love the "consent" stuff and we are big believers in that. If they say they don't want to be hugged or touched, I stop immediately etc. We talk all the time about how everyone gets to control their own body, and who sees and touches it.

It's amazing how quickly they pick some of this stuff up though. I have DS3 tell me that I can't sing along to Shiny because it's a boy song. Nope, it's a giant crab song, so it's either only for giant crabs to sing or for everyone. DS5 hung back during the school "plays" because he said there were too many girl parts. I push back hard against this and encourage them to play pretend as characters of any sex, and I do the same. I tell them there's no such thing as girl toys and boy toys, or boy colors and girl colors, but it's a tougher battle than I realized. I honestly thought it would be easier to get kids to ignore some of these stereotypes than it has been.

[CeeBug]

This is almost a daily struggle in our house since I have boy/girl twins. Somehow, they have decided that some toys are either for boys or girls, pink is for girls, blue is for boys, etc.

I had a mom fail a few months ago when I bought a girl power shirt for dd. It has a girl police officer, scientist, etc. and it says "girls can do it all". Ds looked at me innocently and said, "Where's my boy shirt?" I was crushed.

I worry that I am doing either one a disservice or limiting them. This is one of my mom guilt struggles.

[ambiguousmango]

Still new to the mommy club but we are trying to be very aware so as to make it easier in the future.

We are lucky in that myself and my H value all types of work equally. My H is the primary caregiver to our son and does 90% of the cooking and cleaning. My H enjoys doing those things while I do not. I am the breadwinner and mostly in charge of finances, cars, fixing things.

While I understand where people come from when they say we have "reversed" gender roles we try to refrain from saying that because we feel it diminishes the caregivers work. Just my 2¢

[Deleted]

I like what the article says, and I feel like I do this already- mostly so DS isn't an asshole and not necessarily to make him feminist.

That DS has an older sister he adores helps with the friendships, and exposure to "girl" stuff. Though I've found some to be more challenging as DS' peers start to segregate things as "boy or girl" (colors, toys, shows etc). I know his teachers don't encourage that, so it must come from other homes.

[pumpkin]

Great article! I think we are doing a pretty good job of using the suggestions it lists. Especially "no means no", I work that lesson in at least twice a week. I really want him to know this one. Both of my boys have baby dolls and we encourage them to care for them properly. And H is an amazing role model- nothing is his work, her work here (which is great considering he did not grow up in that environment). I hope it all works out to mold them into compassionate and caring men.

[sweptaway]

Thanks for sharing this. I think I'll share it too.

I try to do a lot of this already. As a new 5, DS already has some ideas about gender stereotypes but we try to combat them. (the other day, I forget what we were doing, but he said... "and that's because girls can be strong too" so I hope some of it is sinking in.)

We talk a lot about consent but right now mostly in a way that protects his body, although we do talk about not putting our hands on other people without permission.

My biggest struggle is that, although DS does help with all manner of chores, H and I have a fairly stereotypical division of household labor. I clean and do laundry, H does yard work, car work, and heavy lifting. We both cook. I am trying to be more conscious about asking H to do more around the house while also taking more initiative to do more "blue" jobs.

[jojo]

This is a great and I feel I've done well in teaching and instilling a lot of these things in DS.

I have had to talk to MH recently about stopping doing something when DS says so. Like tickling him, etc. Also along the lines of "give so and so a hug". I try to just have him say goodbye. He's a hugger by nature so he usually will give someone a hug but I'm not going to force him to do it, even with myself or grandparents.

I did notice recently how easily influenced he can be however. My inlaws were visiting and I was painting my toenails and he asked if I would put some on his too. I said as soon as I was done but then my FIL said "well that's just for girls, boys don't do that". DS got upset and I told him anyone can paint their nails. He didn't want to do it anymore though "because Grandpa said it's just for girls and I'm a boy". It made me so sad. I can't control others so I need to work harder so it doesn't bother him. My FIL can suck it with his old school gender norms.

[babybean]

I don't go out of my way to expose the boys to things that are seen as more feminine, it just kind of happens because I want them to be well rounded human beings. We do everything on the list though.

Ds is the only boy in his gymnastics class. He loves cooking and cleaning and I'm big on communicating and helping him express his feelings. He also loves his toy chainsaw, chopping wood, cars, machinery, wrestling etc. (These are often seen as "girl" and "boy" things)

We've raised my stepson the same and he's a very intelligent, sweet and uplifting kid. He sees girls as equals and doesn't question their capabilities versus their male counterparts. He also isn't concerned about whether something he's interested in his "girly" or not.

[PandaWatch]

Well this made me cry:

"Researchers say the reason parents encourage daughters to play soccer or become doctors, but not sons to take ballet or become nurses, is that “feminine” equals lower status."

I mean, I know this. I live this reality as a female. But it was hard to read nonetheless. As a woman and a mother (to both a son and daughter), it makes me so disheartened that my daughter will experience others believing she is less than.

[PandaWatch]

Sorry. Back to the topic at hand. MH and I do a good job (I think) living a lot of these suggestions with our son.

HOWEVER, he Is three, and so at this age (and earlier) I'm not concerned about what strangers think when he wears a dress or a barette in his hair. If he asks me to paint his nails, I'm game. But I do worry about how I will be when he starts school. As a mother, I want to protect him from teasing from other kids. We're not there yet, but I have some preparation to do. I need to thicken my skin and help him thicken his if necessary.

[Minerva]

Jun 2, 2017 13:38:37 GMT -6 theseaword said:

I have been working on a lot of this in how I raise my boys. Love the "consent" stuff and we are big believers in that. If they say they don't want to be hugged or touched, I stop immediately etc. We talk all the time about how everyone gets to control their own body, and who sees and touches it.

It's amazing how quickly they pick some of this stuff up though. I have DS3 tell me that I can't sing along to Shiny because it's a boy song. Nope, it's a giant crab song, so it's either only for giant crabs to sing or for everyone. DS5 hung back during the school "plays" because he said there were too many girl parts. I push back hard against this and encourage them to play pretend as characters of any sex, and I do the same. I tell them there's no such thing as girl toys and boy toys, or boy colors and girl colors, but it's a tougher battle than I realized. I honestly thought it would be easier to get kids to ignore some of these stereotypes than it has been.

Man, if DS told me I couldn't sing Shiny, I'd probably proceed to sing it in his face. Cause fish are dumb dumb dumb and you can't expect a demigod to beat a decapod are basically words to live by among my fellow crustacean biologists. 😉🦀

[Lord Disick]

Jun 2, 2017 13:55:47 GMT -6 scoutboo said:

I just painted his nails...I'm doing my part?

DS wanted the pink and purple water bottle instead of the blue one and I bought it for him. Am I woke yet?

[theseaword]

Jun 2, 2017 14:44:10 GMT -6 Minerva said:

Jun 2, 2017 13:38:37 GMT -6 theseaword said:

I have been working on a lot of this in how I raise my boys. Love the "consent" stuff and we are big believers in that. If they say they don't want to be hugged or touched, I stop immediately etc. We talk all the time about how everyone gets to control their own body, and who sees and touches it.

It's amazing how quickly they pick some of this stuff up though. I have DS3 tell me that I can't sing along to Shiny because it's a boy song. Nope, it's a giant crab song, so it's either only for giant crabs to sing or for everyone. DS5 hung back during the school "plays" because he said there were too many girl parts. I push back hard against this and encourage them to play pretend as characters of any sex, and I do the same. I tell them there's no such thing as girl toys and boy toys, or boy colors and girl colors, but it's a tougher battle than I realized. I honestly thought it would be easier to get kids to ignore some of these stereotypes than it has been.

Man, if DS told me I couldn't sing Shiny, I'd probably proceed to sing it in his face. Cause fish are dumb dumb dumb and you can't expect a demigod to beat a decapod are basically words to live by among my fellow crustacean biologists. 😉🦀

Is Shiny backed by science? This delights me. I assume crabs can also grow to 50 stories high and have new zealand accents.

[theseaword]

My boys have an Ariel doll, but they fucked up her hair, so I have a lot of work to do.

[billyhorrible]

We work a lot on most of these, because my oldest son hasn't fully signed on to the "boys v. girls" roles, but his friends have. So he loves having his nails painted, but we had to work on responses to others who made comments about it. And he loves his Rainbow Dash stuffed animal, but hid it in his blanket when bringing it to preschool so his friends wouldn't see.

I'm the only female in the house, so modeling is really important to me, and I'm lucky they see that both DH and I work and take care of things around the house without regard to "gendered roles." In fact, next fall when he starts kindergarten, my oldest is in charge of making dinner one night a week (with help/supervision) because "we all help out in the house." I think it's good for him to learn that skill and see that it's not a male/female thing. Even if it means we'll be eating buttered noodles a lot more often.

This whole thing really came into focus for me during the election last year. We spent so much time talking about what a big deal it was going to be to have a female president, and why. After the results, it was more important than ever to me that my sons behaved in a manner that didn't perpetuate the current patriarchy.

[sterling]

A1 is a precious, sensitive soul who loves rainbows and pink and glitter and all the typical "boy" stuff too. I just want to encourage him to be whatever he wants to be always, same with A2. Fuck peer pressure. And holy balls if anyone ever told him not to love rainbow glitter things in front of me they'd get an earful.

[Minerva]

This is a great read. I've worried a lot about this stuff in regard to DS. He has ASD, which complicates matters in some ways. He is a very gentle, kind child, but I think we will need to very explicitly teach him about gender stereotypes and consent. Right now he doesn't seem to consider gender much in his interactions with others. My goal at the moment is to teach him to be kind and respectful to others, while loving and staying true to himself. In the future, he may need to be taught social rules in ways that help him avoid both being harassed and harassing others inadvertently. I feel like it all has the potential to be a strange mix of free to be you and me, along with how to get along with others and be part of a group. We'll see.

[Minerva]

Jun 2, 2017 14:50:41 GMT -6 theseaword said:

Jun 2, 2017 14:44:10 GMT -6 Minerva said:

Man, if DS told me I couldn't sing Shiny, I'd probably proceed to sing it in his face. Cause fish are dumb dumb dumb and you can't expect a demigod to beat a decapod are basically words to live by among my fellow crustacean biologists. 😉🦀

Is Shiny backed by science? This delights me. I assume crabs can also grow to 50 stories high and have new zealand accents.

Haha, not quite that big. But they can get pretty big (more than a foot). There's also a whole group of them that decorate themselves with shells, algae, corals, and sponges.



Mostly I just love Jemaine Clement channeling Bowie!

[hawkward]

Funny timing- I was just telling my sister about this article. H comes from a very "boys will be boys" family, so it's been a learning process for him, but he's very careful about how he talks to the boys.

DS1 would like to be a nurse when he grows up, and he likes other traditionally "feminine" things. School has been his first introduction to "boys vs girls" and it's been a hard concept for him. We've spent a ridiculous amount of time talking about this since August.

[Deleted]

We do well already in most of these areas, but I could be more vigilant about pointing out stereotypes when we see them. Not just gender stereotypes, but all kinds. I like the point towards the end of the article that if we don't point them out as stereotypes, our kids will accept them as normal.

[missshirley]

I was just thinking about this as I walked with my 2 year old to pick up his sister from preschool. My two eldest are girls and I've been so in the 'how to raise a girl' camp for 6 years that it's interesting to find myself in this camp too now.

Isn't it INSANE how early they start picking up the gender appropriate stuff? Our household has always been as gender neutral as we can make it. Construction toys, baby dolls, blue, pink, it's all available for anyone to play with. And my 6 year old has still come home asking if blue is a boy colour and if it can still be her favourite colour because she's a girl. I explained to her that people can believe things that are silly and not true. And that not that long ago girl's weren't suppose to wear pants. She found that so hilarious and as absurd as it is. So I've taken the stance of asking them what they think, if they think it's true that girls/boys can't play with that, or if they think it's silly like the pants thing?

Now sometimes when her little sister, who is 4, says to her 2 year old brother 'you can't have a baby dolly, it's just for girls!' her older sister will tell her 'that's not true, daddy is a boy and he has babies!' So it's working.

[valiente]

We're ahead of the game on consent.

Somewhere he got the idea that babies can cry but not big boys. So I'm working on "everybody cries sometimes."

[yellowwallpaper]

There are a few people I know who could benefit from reading this article.

The "let him be himself" stood out to me because my son dances and I've gotten comments about that.

"He'll change his mind once he's in school."
"He'll get made fun of."
"Does he really want to dance or are you making him do it?"

Not one of these comments did I get when I was a child and took karate in a class that was mostly boys.

[shananagins]

I hope that my DH and I are moving in the right direction with this. By the time my DH was in Kindergarten, his dad had retired from the Air Force, and his mom had just finished her masters and began a new accounting job. His dad stayed home and worked a few part time jobs. But he did the cooking and much of the cleaning, because DH's mom worked some very late hours at the office.

DH is currently a SAHP and we split the household chores pretty evenly. We simply chose chores based on things we like/dislike. I clean the bathrooms because I don't mind, he does the dishes because I absolutely hate doing dishes, etc. And he's a much better chef than I am, so he does most of the cooking. DH is also in school to get his RN, and his long term goal is to be in the NICU. So I guess I feel he's a really good example to DS1 in many ways.

I try really hard to work on these things with my Kindergarten students as well. I teach in a VERY conservative area. I had a little guy last year who just really wanted long hair. It was to the middle of his back with these perfect ringlets. And I love that his mom basically said "It's his hair. He can cut it or not cut it. It's his choice." I had so many darn kids using the wrong pronoun when talking about him, and we really had to work on that as a class. Typically though, it's the small stuff. "Girl" and "boy" colors or books or toys.

The no means no stuff is really important to me. I have so many thoughts on this that I won't get into because it feels a bit off topic. But I feel like this is a significant issue that starts when kids are very little and has really far reaching affects into young adulthood. In my classroom, I teach my kids how to talk about feelings. We have a feelings word wall to help them describe how they feel. When they are upset with someone, I make them use an I statement: "when you __, it made me feel ___. Please don't do that again." And we talk about how if someone asks us to stop doing something, we listen. It's not perfect, but I want to teach them how to have a voice, and how to listen to others. I'll stop now because I think lack of sleep is making me ramble...

[cyprissa]

DS6 has been exposed to much more peer pressure surrounding traditional masculinity lately. Kids at school have started the blue is for boys and pink is for girls thing plus segregating toys and interactions more. His favorite color has always been pink and he loves cooking, fashion, dance and music. DH and I try to just encourage him to follow what he likes and reinforce that nothing is off limits for girls or boys and that respecting and being kind to each other is the most important thing.

[tincupchalice]

I read this earlier today and liked it. My eldest has some interests and tendencies that society regards as feminine, but I don't care. He's still young enough that most people don't either, but I'm prepared to fight that fight when it comes.

[danib]

This is one of my "hills". I will have it out with anyone who tells my child he can't play with that toy or paint his nails or wear my high heels (etc) because they are "for girls". He loves dinosaurs and roughhousins and Spiderman, and baby dolls and lipstick and Black Widow (female superhero in the Avengers).
My H has so much trouble dealing with and expressing his feelings because they didn't talk about feelings in his house. If he was upset about what someone did, he was expected to just "leave it alone". This has caused us issues because you can only do that for so long before it all becomes too much and you lash out.
So we talk about feelings. A lot. We constantly talk about being happy (so it's not just about "negative" emotions) and we hug and cry when we are sad.
My oldest is almost 4, so he doesn't have a ton of chores yet, but he bakes with us, helps unload the dishwasher and laundry, puts his dishes in the sink, and helps clean up his toys. He also sees his dad do his fair share of the housework (which I think is important). I had a roommate once who literally left garbage and dishes all over the house, expecting me to pick up after him..... That didn't last long.
We are also big on consent. If I'm tickling him and he says stop, I stop. If he is doing something and doesn't listem when I say stop or no, we sit down and talk about it and how it's important to listen when someone says no.

[dc2london]

Jun 2, 2017 13:53:21 GMT -6 @privacy said:

I like what the article says, and I feel like I do this already- mostly so DS isn't an asshole and not necessarily to make him feminist.

That DS has an older sister he adores helps with the friendships, and exposure to "girl" stuff. Though I've found some to be more challenging as DS' peers start to segregate things as "boy or girl" (colors, toys, shows etc). I know his teachers don't encourage that, so it must come from other homes.

I struggle with this too. We don't allow anything to be labeled as "just for boys" or 'just for girls" in our house but they definitely hear it from other kids. And that makes me rage. It's 2017, what kind of heel tells his child that only girls can wear a pink shirt, FFS?

[dreadpirateroberts]

I have thought a lot about this because I have boy/girl twins and I want to make sure my daughter grows up with strong role models, knowing she can be whatever she wants. We've bought a lot of books about important women, but I worried that I would be inadvertently making my son feel less than because we focus so much on females. It's not a huge deal right now because they are only 14 months old, but I've definitely thought about it, so this article is great. I really like the consent part too. DH's family are all huggers, but I've told him many times that we will not be forcing them to give affection if they don't want to.

One thing that the article doesn't really talk about that I have witnessed is boys liking feminine things, so they will grow up to be gay. I've seen that in my personal life and it seems like just a different way to get boys to not like "girly" things because being gay is "bad" and I really hate that. I don't understand why people can't just let kids be kids.