normadix
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Post by normadix on Dec 7, 2023 13:08:27 GMT -6
IDK how to post a picture from my laptop, but J-Lo wore a metal breastplate thing to the Women in Hollywood event last night and I hate it so much. I mean, wear what you feel good in, but no thanks for me. Outfit was ugly but I thought she looked great. I don’t know if I’m just used to seeing her with photo filters/editing but IMO she actually looks better without all that. Ben didn’t even look miserable!
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STP
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Post by STP on Dec 7, 2023 13:11:32 GMT -6
100%. I am reasonably confident this class of weight loss drugs will be in pill form in ten years, so why handwring? Whatever helps. Who else here is old enough to remember Phen-Fen? I don't think we will see a rush to pill form. Oh I think we will because the profit is there, but yeah the Phen-Fen thing should be more illustrative to the people making those calls. To me, anyway.
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STP
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Post by STP on Dec 7, 2023 13:13:50 GMT -6
Well. Because it's fairly medically controversial given the severe gastro side effects we're seeing crop up and the fact that the cohort groups aren't even past the usual timelines for long term consequences and results yet. So while I am firmly in KOKO and not judging anyone for their choices on this, I fully understand the concerns that aren't rooted in fat shaming. eta And I'm chubby. Make no mistake. If you think I haven't thought about asking for it, you'd be wrong. But dismissing the concerns as handwringing...IDK about that. Everyone make the choices they feel are best, but don't dismiss an entire side of the conversation. eta 2 this is a sensitive topic and I've now edited my words several times bc I just know I will offend someone without meaning to. Be open to the full discourse, is all. I'm talking about handwringing by people saying there is an easy way vs. hard way to lose weight. There is no easy way. If the side effects are bad enough, they will discontinue these drugs the way they did with fen fen. Sure, they will but there are a lot of people who had lifelong issues due to Phen-Fen, so the whole thing of let's just do it until we shouldn't makes me so nervous. Not because it's "easy" to be crystal clear. This has been such a profit grab, and it's disheartening a bit because I hate people being harmed in the process. Just one more way our approach to healthcare and medicine is skewed in this country.
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STP
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Post by STP on Dec 7, 2023 13:14:31 GMT -6
JLo is gorgeous. She just is.
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Post by allthekristys on Dec 7, 2023 13:58:18 GMT -6
Who else here is old enough to remember Phen-Fen? I don't think we will see a rush to pill form. There is a pill form. And I believe other pharm companies have been testing theirs. Yeah my friends husband, a diabetic (and a scientist), is on ozempic for his diabetes. The man is anal, like phd in atoms or sumshit, and decided to take the pill form so he can 'control the medicine' easier and take it day by day, as opposed to a weekly shot.
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Dec 7, 2023 14:09:17 GMT -6
For me, *personally*, I think the weight loss drugs need to figure out their long-term plan. And I’ve said that to brux since she first started telling me about it, regarding why *I* wouldn’t want to use it. I don’t want to be on a weight loss drug for the rest of my life. The fact that they work by slowing down your digestion, that’s going to directly mess up your metabolism long-term. So it makes sense that there are so many anecdotes about people going off them and rapidly gaining weight back. It’s a money grab right now. They are going to churn out as many forms of this stuff, as quickly as they can. But I think if it’s continued to be prescribed to people that this isn’t a lifetime medication, or a last resort, they need to figure out what comes after the meds.
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fb
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Post by fb on Dec 7, 2023 14:16:58 GMT -6
For me, *personally*, I think the weight loss drugs need to figure out their long-term plan. And I’ve said that to brux since she first started telling me about it, regarding why *I* wouldn’t want to use it. I don’t want to be on a weight loss drug for the rest of my life. The fact that they work by slowing down your digestion, that’s going to directly mess up your metabolism long-term. So it makes sense that there are so many anecdotes about people going off them and rapidly gaining weight back. It’s a money grab right now. They are going to churn out as many forms of this stuff, as quickly as they can. But I think if it’s continued to be prescribed to people that this isn’t a lifetime medication, or a last resort, they need to figure out what comes after the meds. So true and which, to @stp point, is the problem with for profit healthcare.
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Dec 7, 2023 14:19:23 GMT -6
For me, *personally*, I think the weight loss drugs need to figure out their long-term plan. And I’ve said that to brux since she first started telling me about it, regarding why *I* wouldn’t want to use it. I don’t want to be on a weight loss drug for the rest of my life. The fact that they work by slowing down your digestion, that’s going to directly mess up your metabolism long-term. So it makes sense that there are so many anecdotes about people going off them and rapidly gaining weight back. It’s a money grab right now. They are going to churn out as many forms of this stuff, as quickly as they can. But I think if it’s continued to be prescribed to people that this isn’t a lifetime medication, or a last resort, they need to figure out what comes after the meds. So true and which, to @stp point, is the problem with for profit healthcare. Completely. I think it’s really great for people who need it and for those who try everything and nothing works, it’s not a quick fix, it’s a long-term solution. But pushing it to lose some stubborn weight or 5lbs before an event is not worth the long-term effect.
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fatpony
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Post by fatpony on Dec 7, 2023 14:31:21 GMT -6
If/since obesity is a disease, I guess I don't see the hand wringing over treating it like other diseases. People aren't against taking medicine for the long term for other things (high blood pressure, depression, etc) why should this be any different? I know with mental health pharma its taken a long time for people to be ok to get their serotonin from artificial sources and to say, yes, I will be on this for my lifetime because my body doesn't produce these essential chemicals in the way it is supposed to. Same with people who have obesity.
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Cher
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Post by Cher on Dec 7, 2023 14:41:43 GMT -6
If/since obesity is a disease, I guess I don't see the hand wringing over treating it like other diseases. People aren't against taking medicine for the long term for other things (high blood pressure, depression, etc) why should this be any different? I know with mental health pharma its taken a long time for people to be ok to get their serotonin from artificial sources and to say, yes, I will be on this for my lifetime because my body doesn't produce these essential chemicals in the way it is supposed to. Same with people who have obesity. Are you replying to me? If so, you’re missing what I said.
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STP
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Post by STP on Dec 7, 2023 14:42:49 GMT -6
If/since obesity is a disease, I guess I don't see the hand wringing over treating it like other diseases. People aren't against taking medicine for the long term for other things (high blood pressure, depression, etc) why should this be any different? I know with mental health pharma its taken a long time for people to be ok to get their serotonin from artificial sources and to say, yes, I will be on this for my lifetime because my body doesn't produce these essential chemicals in the way it is supposed to. Same with people who have obesity. Obesity isn't a disease. I am very uncomfortable with labeling it thus. There are plenty of healthy people who are medically obese. They are not diseased. That is very damaging, stigmatizing language.
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willow
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Post by willow on Dec 7, 2023 14:55:59 GMT -6
I have complicated feelings about mental health drugs* too, so it doesn't surprise me that I'm of the same perspective as Cher and STP with being wary on the long term effects of the new weight loss drugs too. *I have tried 3 different SSRI and SNRI's myself in the last 8 months so don't @ me that I don't understand.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Dec 7, 2023 14:56:13 GMT -6
Maintenance Phase podcast recently did an episode on Ozempic that echos similar points made here - about the shaming for using that method of weight loss, the data so far (and limitations of it), and the fucked up healthcare system we have and how it will surely mess this up too. Recommend it as a listen.
One other thing they mentioned is how they predict that there will be shaming of obese people who do not use it and “remain obese”. Like society will be like “we found a cure, don’t you want to be cured?” When the reality is that some people don’t need to take it, some people can’t take it, and some people choose not to.
So look forward to that level of fuckery coming soon.
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brux
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Post by brux on Dec 7, 2023 15:22:26 GMT -6
If you asked me a year ago about my desire to be on a lifelong medication, my answer would be different than it is today. Thanks, Multiple Sclerosis for giving me the gift of a lifelong medical issue that requires medication. So now I'm team "give me all the drugs" I guess.
I actually don't know what my long-term plan is on that Wegovy life.
It's been 18 months so far, which has flown by. I'm at a good weight and I'd like to stop losing. My current issue is that I cannot get a prescription filled for a lower dose of the med (due to shortages) and that Wegovy, in its current form, can't be administered in incremental doses like Ozempic can be. So I don't know how to transition into maintenance and/or going down in dosage.
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brux
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Post by brux on Dec 7, 2023 15:25:29 GMT -6
Out in the real world, most people I mention it to have no idea what I'm talking about. Like they've never heard of Ozempic.
It's weird how they're so clueless about pop culture. Or maybe it's weird that pop culture is my favorite topic.
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STP
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Post by STP on Dec 7, 2023 15:27:19 GMT -6
Maintenance Phase podcast recently did an episode on Ozempic that echos similar points made here - about the shaming for using that method of weight loss, the data so far (and limitations of it), and the fucked up healthcare system we have and how it will surely mess this up too. Recommend it as a listen. One other thing they mentioned is how they predict that there will be shaming of obese people who do not use it and “remain obese”. Like society will be like “we found a cure, don’t you want to be cured?” When the reality is that some people don’t need to take it, some people can’t take it, and some people choose not to. So look forward to that level of fuckery coming soon. I thought they did a good job balancing the discussion, even in being upfront about their own biases.
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Post by Lord Disick on Dec 7, 2023 15:34:35 GMT -6
Maintenance Phase podcast recently did an episode on Ozempic that echos similar points made here - about the shaming for using that method of weight loss, the data so far (and limitations of it), and the fucked up healthcare system we have and how it will surely mess this up too. Recommend it as a listen. One other thing they mentioned is how they predict that there will be shaming of obese people who do not use it and “remain obese”. Like society will be like “we found a cure, don’t you want to be cured?” When the reality is that some people don’t need to take it, some people can’t take it, and some people choose not to. So look forward to that level of fuckery coming soon. I thought they did a good job balancing the discussion, even in being upfront about their own biases. They did a follow-up episode for Patreon subscribers where they talked about how hard it was to make that episode. They knew there was no room for error and were super thorough in their research and prep. I agree that they did a great job with a super sticky topic.
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brux
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Post by brux on Dec 7, 2023 15:35:19 GMT -6
I'll have to check out that maintenance phase episode. I always forget about that podcast existing.
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willow
Ruby
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Post by willow on Dec 7, 2023 15:37:56 GMT -6
Maintenance Phase podcast recently did an episode on Ozempic that echos similar points made here - about the shaming for using that method of weight loss, the data so far (and limitations of it), and the fucked up healthcare system we have and how it will surely mess this up too. Recommend it as a listen. One other thing they mentioned is how they predict that there will be shaming of obese people who do not use it and “remain obese”. Like society will be like “we found a cure, don’t you want to be cured?” When the reality is that some people don’t need to take it, some people can’t take it, and some people choose not to. So look forward to that level of fuckery coming soon. The thing about the bolded is that it is already happening. My H is considered obese by BMI standards (obligatory fuck the BMI) and has already had people comment about why he hasn't considered Ozempic yet. He is anything but subtle and usually shuts the person down pretty quickly because he is not interested in the drug for the reasons stated in this thread. Like people already can't comprehend why someone wouldn't choose it if they could.
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4speedy
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Post by 4speedy on Dec 7, 2023 15:41:50 GMT -6
Out in the real world, most people I mention it to have no idea what I'm talking about. Like they've never heard of Ozempic. It's weird how they're so clueless about pop culture. Or maybe it's weird that pop culture is my favorite topic. I know the CFO of Novo-Nordisk (the Danish company that makes Ozempic). We were visiting him 4 years ago and he was telling me about their “new” drug. I told him I already knew about it. He asked if I had diabetes. When I said no, he was surprised I had heard of it. Then I starting singing O-O-O-Ozempic to him. I saw him again about a year ago and he said he should have seen the writing on the wall when I was singing the jingle way back then. (We had also discussed the weight loss “side effect” back then. He was surprised people associated it with weight loss first and diabetes second at the initial launch.)
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brux
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Post by brux on Dec 7, 2023 15:44:15 GMT -6
Out in the real world, most people I mention it to have no idea what I'm talking about. Like they've never heard of Ozempic. It's weird how they're so clueless about pop culture. Or maybe it's weird that pop culture is my favorite topic. I know the CFO of Novo-Nordisk (the Danish company that makes Ozempic). We were visiting him 4 years ago and he was telling me about their “new” drug. I told him I already knew about it. He asked if I had diabetes. When I said no, he was surprised I had heard of it. Then I starting singing O-O-O-Ozempic to him. I saw him again about a year ago and he said he should have seen the writing on the wall when I was singing the jingle way back then. I very much should've bought stock in Novo Nordisk back when I started this journey. It didn't even occur to me at the time. Drug commercials are wild! I tune so many of them out, but once you're looking for them, you see them all the time.
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fb
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Post by fb on Dec 7, 2023 15:50:32 GMT -6
I like that we can have these types of discussions in a respectful manner. There are so so so many big feelings about all of it. I learn so much from y'all.
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4speedy
Gold
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Post by 4speedy on Dec 7, 2023 15:51:59 GMT -6
I know the CFO of Novo-Nordisk (the Danish company that makes Ozempic). We were visiting him 4 years ago and he was telling me about their “new” drug. I told him I already knew about it. He asked if I had diabetes. When I said no, he was surprised I had heard of it. Then I starting singing O-O-O-Ozempic to him. I saw him again about a year ago and he said he should have seen the writing on the wall when I was singing the jingle way back then. I very much should've bought stock in Novo Nordisk back when I started this journey. It didn't even occur to me at the time. Drug commercials are wild! I tune so many of them out, but once you're looking for them, you see them I wonder all.the.time. how much money he is personally making. I was selling medical equipment in hospitals when Viagra was launched. Those sale reps got sooooo screwed. They blasted past their quotas and were on track to make HUGE bonuses. Pfizer then changed all their targets because the drug “sold itself” and was not due to the hard work of the reps. And yet, every time I tried to call on an orthopedic surgeon that whole summer, I was always told they were not available because they decided to attend the viagra inservice at lunch time. The viagra reps were literally inserting around the clock, working insane hours, because every single specialty wanted to learn about it. Me: “But doc, you’re in ortho…?” Doc “Oh, it’s not for me, my hip patients have a real need for this…” 🙄
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Post by newspapers on Dec 7, 2023 15:52:04 GMT -6
Maintenance Phase podcast recently did an episode on Ozempic that echos similar points made here - about the shaming for using that method of weight loss, the data so far (and limitations of it), and the fucked up healthcare system we have and how it will surely mess this up too. Recommend it as a listen. One other thing they mentioned is how they predict that there will be shaming of obese people who do not use it and “remain obese”. Like society will be like “we found a cure, don’t you want to be cured?” When the reality is that some people don’t need to take it, some people can’t take it, and some people choose not to. So look forward to that level of fuckery coming soon. The thing about the bolded is that it is already happening. My H is considered obese by BMI standards (obligatory fuck the BMI) and has already had people comment about why he hasn't considered Ozempic yet. He is anything but subtle and usually shuts the person down pretty quickly because he is not interested in the drug for the reasons stated in this thread. Like people already can't comprehend why someone wouldn't choose it if they could. Additonally, Ozempic isn't a weight loss drug and won't be covered if you don't have diabetes--wegovy is. And Wegovy isn't covered by many insurers. It's why I went to surgery, which was basically free, instead of paying 1600 per month. Access is still very much an issue.
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STP
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Post by STP on Dec 7, 2023 15:57:31 GMT -6
Out in the real world, most people I mention it to have no idea what I'm talking about. Like they've never heard of Ozempic. It's weird how they're so clueless about pop culture. Or maybe it's weird that pop culture is my favorite topic. I know the CFO of Novo-Nordisk (the Danish company that makes Ozempic). We were visiting him 4 years ago and he was telling me about their “new” drug. I told him I already knew about it. He asked if I had diabetes. When I said no, he was surprised I had heard of it. Then I starting singing O-O-O-Ozempic to him. I saw him again about a year ago and he said he should have seen the writing on the wall when I was singing the jingle way back then. (We had also discussed the weight loss “side effect” back then. He was surprised people associated it with weight loss first and diabetes second at the initial launch.) Really show the priorities of American drug companies/medical field vs the rest of the world.
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shadows
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Post by shadows on Dec 7, 2023 16:03:16 GMT -6
Out in the real world, most people I mention it to have no idea what I'm talking about. Like they've never heard of Ozempic. It's weird how they're so clueless about pop culture. Or maybe it's weird that pop culture is my favorite topic. I'm pretty sure that my kids could sing, "O-o-o-Ozempic", so I think they're the weirdos.
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brux
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Post by brux on Dec 7, 2023 16:05:41 GMT -6
4speedy , if your CFO friend's first name is Karsten, then he makes more than $1M base plus other cash and stock for more $$. eta: it's a public company, it's in their annual report.
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Post by leatherpants on Dec 7, 2023 16:08:16 GMT -6
Is this fast? Or have I lost all sense of time? *Im not making a statement about how quickly you can start dating after a breakup/divorce. But I was surprised. It feels like we just got the announcement that he and Jody were divorcing.
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brux
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Post by brux on Dec 7, 2023 16:09:37 GMT -6
The thing about the bolded is that it is already happening. My H is considered obese by BMI standards (obligatory fuck the BMI) and has already had people comment about why he hasn't considered Ozempic yet. He is anything but subtle and usually shuts the person down pretty quickly because he is not interested in the drug for the reasons stated in this thread. Like people already can't comprehend why someone wouldn't choose it if they could. Additonally, Ozempic isn't a weight loss drug and won't be covered if you don't have diabetes--wegovy is. And Wegovy isn't covered by many insurers. It's why I went to surgery, which was basically free, instead of paying 1600 per month. Access is still very much an issue. I've come to learn that my insurance thought I had diabetes when they approved my Ozempic. No one said I did, but there was no prior auth process in place at the time, so it was approved because my doctor prescribed it. Now I had to get a prior auth for Wegovy, which I did, but I had to pay OOP for it until I hit my annual maximum. It's very very cost prohibitive. It seems unbalanced to me that health insurers would rather pay for surgery than meds.
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STP
Diamond
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Post by STP on Dec 7, 2023 16:14:42 GMT -6
Additonally, Ozempic isn't a weight loss drug and won't be covered if you don't have diabetes--wegovy is. And Wegovy isn't covered by many insurers. It's why I went to surgery, which was basically free, instead of paying 1600 per month. Access is still very much an issue. I've come to learn that my insurance thought I had diabetes when they approved my Ozempic. No one said I did, but there was no prior auth process in place at the time, so it was approved because my doctor prescribed it. Now I had to get a prior auth for Wegovy, which I did, but I had to pay OOP for it until I hit my annual maximum. It's very very cost prohibitive. It seems unbalanced to me that health insurers would rather pay for surgery than meds. It's bc the surgeries have an established track record, so they know the potential payout risks. We don't know what the long term effects of the meds will be, and it could cost them a ton if there are negative side effects that result in people needing medical care for years. So in risk analysis, the surgery is safer for them.* *Safe, risk ,etc is in terms of cost to them, not safety of the patient
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