willow
Ruby
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Post by willow on Jan 11, 2023 7:02:05 GMT -6
I haven’t read it, and I don’t have anyone very close in my life anymore that has been active duty / in active warfare that I could have a convo about this with… so anyone in active military life can certainly tell me nope that’s not it…. But I wonder if his comments of the killings and referring to them as chess pieces is more of a way to cope and separate the human from the killing? Like, (and idk if I am explaining this in a way that makes sense outside my head) I imagine - for me- the idea of going to war and knowing you actually killed real human people can be traumatic and I think a lot of things people are and do in war leads to PTSD and having a lot of trauma, right? So maybe finding a way to compartmentalize the human you killed and viewing them as a “chess piece” or a target like it’s a damn video game is a way to cope with the evils of war killing. Again, I haven’t read so maybe whatever he says shows this is clearly not a possible mindset, or veterans can say no that’s not how we experience/view it, but…. Idk. Just a thought? *watch I read it and I’m gonna be like LOLNO TO ME. He talks about having ptsd afterward as well. And when his comments were spun in the press to say just what you said, that he said it’s like playing a video game. I do agree that all of his prior trauma led him to be malleable and easy to acquiesce to military expectations.
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Post by angelashly on Jan 11, 2023 7:36:01 GMT -6
I haven’t read it, and I don’t have anyone very close in my life anymore that has been active duty / in active warfare that I could have a convo about this with… so anyone in active military life can certainly tell me nope that’s not it…. But I wonder if his comments of the killings and referring to them as chess pieces is more of a way to cope and separate the human from the killing? Like, (and idk if I am explaining this in a way that makes sense outside my head) I imagine - for me- the idea of going to war and knowing you actually killed real human people can be traumatic and I think a lot of things people are and do in war leads to PTSD and having a lot of trauma, right? So maybe finding a way to compartmentalize the human you killed and viewing them as a “chess piece” or a target like it’s a damn video game is a way to cope with the evils of war killing. Again, I haven’t read so maybe whatever he says shows this is clearly not a possible mindset, or veterans can say no that’s not how we experience/view it, but…. Idk. Just a thought? *watch I read it and I’m gonna be like LOLNO TO ME. My BIl never talks about his time in the war, but one time after drinking with us and his brother who is still active they very much said that they can’t think of the people killed as people even though they know they are because it was a job that they signed up for and if they thought to much they wouldn’t have been able to do what they were there for and they would have ended up dead themselves. I’m not taking away from the aspect of it is probably not something to talk about because it’s just not necessary we all know it was horrific. I tend to lean towards those here who know more about the military though.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Jan 11, 2023 7:38:08 GMT -6
Harry telling about his experiences in Afghanistan is a choice he made to hold space for others to tell their stories without shame in an attempt to reduce suicide. He and Colbert also discuss the fact that his service in Afghanistan and that lives were taken by him was well-documented by the press so that they and anyone acting brand-new in this regard are ridiculous. In fact, his service was praised by the same press who are blasting him now and, worse, some of the sentiments are decidedly pro-Taliban, which is a whole other level of disgusting.
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Post by mrsweasley on Jan 11, 2023 7:41:05 GMT -6
Harry telling about his experiences in Afghanistan is a choice he made to hold space for others to tell their stories without shame in an attempt to reduce suicide. I watched Colbert and thought that was a nice statement, but I think it would have been possible for him to do that without specifically mentioning his count. I haven't seen anyone military affiliated feel positive about it. I will stand corrected if that changes though.
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Post by angelashly on Jan 11, 2023 7:45:15 GMT -6
I’m seriously laughing at Emily Giffin’s post about her thoughts being with Will and how happy she is he has a supportive wife and hopefully he has a good therapist
Spoiler alert: he doesn’t have a good therapist
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Jan 11, 2023 7:58:55 GMT -6
Psst, Emily, Wills doesn't give a shit about you and neither do any of the Kennedys.
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Eagles
Opal
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Post by Eagles on Jan 11, 2023 8:06:21 GMT -6
Harry telling about his experiences in Afghanistan is a choice he made to hold space for others to tell their stories without shame in an attempt to reduce suicide. He and Colbert also discuss the fact that his service in Afghanistan and that lives were taken by him was well-documented by the press so that they and anyone acting brand-new in this regard are ridiculous. In fact, his service was praised by the same press who are blasting him now and, worse, some of the sentiments are decidedly pro-Taliban, which is a whole other level of disgusting. Did he ever disclose his number before though? My understanding from my friends who served in Iraq is that you don't talk about that. Maybe that's not healthy, idk. I'm honestly exhausted by his need to blame the media while talking to the media.
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Post by imapenguin on Jan 11, 2023 8:11:38 GMT -6
I’m seriously laughing at Emily Giffin’s post about her thoughts being with Will and how happy she is he has a supportive wife and hopefully he has a good therapist Spoiler alert: he doesn’t have a good therapist Well if she read the book she would Know no one in that family is getting therapy.
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Radley
Sapphire
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Post by Radley on Jan 11, 2023 8:12:59 GMT -6
Lots of things were considered things people "don't talk about" and we now know that helps exactly 0 people. Do I think there are more tactful ways to go about it? Absolutely. Do I think it can be considered problematic - especially given his family's history? Sure. But "we don't talk about those things" is a problematic phrase as well imo.
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Post by Sweetjane on Jan 11, 2023 8:22:07 GMT -6
Lots of things were considered things people "don't talk about" and we now know that helps exactly 0 people. Do I think there are more tactful ways to go about it? Absolutely. Do I think it can be considered problematic - especially given his family's history? Sure. But "we don't talk about those things" is a problematic phrase as well imo. So true. Just because things have always been done a certain way, doesn't mean it's the only/best way.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Jan 11, 2023 8:30:04 GMT -6
He and Colbert also discuss the fact that his service in Afghanistan and that lives were taken by him was well-documented by the press so that they and anyone acting brand-new in this regard are ridiculous. In fact, his service was praised by the same press who are blasting him now and, worse, some of the sentiments are decidedly pro-Taliban, which is a whole other level of disgusting. Did he ever disclose his number before though? My understanding from my friends who served in Iraq is that you don't talk about that. Maybe that's not healthy, idk. I don't know that he ever did disclose it before. I've been doing a lot of reflecting about him disclosing the number over the past several days, as I'm sure many of us are, and last night, I had a conversation with one of my closest friends (she's actually the mother of one of my nephews and was the fiance of my late brother) and this topic came up as she's been reading the book and has read the passages relative to his military service. One of her younger brothers is a Marine, who served in Afghanistan, and, without prompting, she shared that she has talked to him in recent days about Harry's revelations, including the count being specifically named. Her brother indicated that othering the enemy, including referring to them as "chess pieces" is the experience of most soldiers, himself included, which tracks with much of what I've read about the experience of soldiers in every conflict in the history of ever, and mirrors the comments from my own grandfather and great-uncles, who all fought in WWII. He echoed Harry's comments as to that othering, that you cannot do what is part of your job to do unless you have that lens. As to the count, she said that he thought long and hard about it and while it isn't something he has said out loud, because he is not 100% sure of his count and mainly because that is part of distancing oneself by not choosing to deliberately think and consider how many lives were impacted by your actions, or at least in the constant forefront, of one's mind, even though again, it goes with the territory, he is not in disagreement. He said that, in a way, he can respect Harry for choosing to put this very controversial information in his book because he took the time to learn this information, to never forget it, when it might have been easier to not put it in such stark reality (I would say there's no "might have been" about that, given the reaction.) He also echoed that the silence and the shame and the stigma is often crippling, where he has had his own thoughts of suicide or self-harm, and was appreciative of Harry speaking out. Obviously, one marine's views are not a monolith for all views but that he is a veteran with six tours in Afghanistan makes his words hold much weight for me.
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Post by beesquared on Jan 11, 2023 8:41:53 GMT -6
I think the attitude of not talking about it for all traumatic experiences typically does people a disservice in regards to mental health. Harry’s life is public and offers him a different platform to make a point.
I disagree that all media should be taken equally. Writing a book and talking about it to legitimate press is different than tabloids spinning 2 lines into a story. It’s why I’m not making judgements on any excerpts from the book until I can read the full passages myself. I don’t agree with everything Harry says or does, but the tabloid press is doing a banner job of proving him and Meghan right about what they said in their docuseries.
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Post by beesquared on Jan 11, 2023 8:44:59 GMT -6
From a personal standpoint, I have experienced things we aren’t supposed to about. Talking about them is what helped me process and heal. Allowing truths into the light is important.
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Post by angelashly on Jan 11, 2023 8:49:00 GMT -6
He and Colbert also discuss the fact that his service in Afghanistan and that lives were taken by him was well-documented by the press so that they and anyone acting brand-new in this regard are ridiculous. In fact, his service was praised by the same press who are blasting him now and, worse, some of the sentiments are decidedly pro-Taliban, which is a whole other level of disgusting. Did he ever disclose his number before though? My understanding from my friends who served in Iraq is that you don't talk about that. Maybe that's not healthy, idk. I'm honestly exhausted by his need to blame the media while talking to the media. But the media is to blame because as we know they take what will get them clicks and don’t put the whole thing out there. He explained this to Michael Strathan in that he doesn’t have problem with the media he has problem with corrupt media and I get it but that doesn’t get people to their site
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Post by angelashly on Jan 11, 2023 8:51:38 GMT -6
From a personal standpoint, I have experienced things we aren’t supposed to about. Talking about them is what helped me process and heal. Allowing truths into the light is important. People deal in different ways. I get how talking to media etc can be seen differently than talking to friends and family but I also see in the blinds so many praises for celebrities talking about what were considered taboo topics or the call for celebrities to talk more about things so where is the line drawn? I would hate to be a celebrity 100%
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Jan 11, 2023 9:00:33 GMT -6
From a personal standpoint, I have experienced things we aren’t supposed to about. Talking about them is what helped me process and heal. Allowing truths into the light is important. I am nodding along to every.single.word. Part of the trauma I experienced as a child/teenager was because of the lies and deceit (including the lies I told myself for decades, because who wants to be a victim?) and the shame I felt, believing for a very long time that it was my fault on some level or I was deserving somehow. The cycle of trauma was perpetuated because I didn't feel I could speak out and, as already noted, I compartmentalized so much that I could make myself almost believe what happened didn't. It wasn't until two decades after the last incident of abuse happened and my body, tired of keeping the toxicity inside, was reacting to the point that I was physically ill, that I had no choice but to out that which I had planned to take to the grave. Coming to terms with what happened. Speaking the things out loud. Saying the names of those who abused me, out loud, was what helped me to finally acknowledge what happened, process that I didn't deserve any of it, that it wasn't my fault, and has enabled me to come out of the other side, a far healthier person and survivor.
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Post by goldenbird on Jan 11, 2023 9:07:33 GMT -6
I see why he did include it and it does make sense. I can't imagine that experience to begin with. But I also see why people are upset about it and see it as problematic. It's a rock and a hard place.
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Post by goldenbird on Jan 11, 2023 9:10:16 GMT -6
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Post by goldenbird on Jan 11, 2023 9:11:56 GMT -6
I saw the above and that's what made me stop and think. Reading through the book I honestly just skimmed because I don't like war content.
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Post by ArielMermaid on Jan 11, 2023 9:14:04 GMT -6
In other Royals news:
King Constantine of Greece has died at age 82. He suffered a stroke last week and has had heath issues for years.
Constantine was the last king of Greece, reigning from 1964 to 1973.
This is a monarchy I know almost nothing about. Wonder if anyone we know will attend the funeral.
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Post by goldenbird on Jan 11, 2023 9:16:47 GMT -6
I absolutely see the stigma that surrounds talking about these things and the mental health issues service members face. I don't mean to imply that they should be silent on their experiences. I hope I didn't come off that way.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Jan 11, 2023 9:18:49 GMT -6
Philip was his first cousin (their fathers were brothers), making Charles his second cousin, and Constantine was also godfather to Will.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Jan 11, 2023 9:19:43 GMT -6
I absolutely see the stigma that surrounds talking about these things and the mental health issues service members face. I don't mean to imply that they should be silent on their experiences. I hope I didn't come off that way. I didn't take your posts to mean anything of the sort.
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Post by angelashly on Jan 11, 2023 9:25:59 GMT -6
I see why he did include it and it does make sense. I can't imagine that experience to begin with. But I also see why people are upset about it and see it as problematic. It's a rock and a hard place. This
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Post by pitchslap on Jan 11, 2023 9:29:44 GMT -6
In other Royals news: King Constantine of Greece has died at age 82. He suffered a stroke last week and has had heath issues for years. Constantine was the last king of Greece, reigning from 1964 to 1973. This is a monarchy I know almost nothing about. Wonder if anyone we know will attend the funeral. They're related to Philip so then Charles and Will so maybe they'll go. I would imagine it would be a quieter funeral so it might be easier for them to go to it.
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willow
Ruby
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Post by willow on Jan 11, 2023 9:32:01 GMT -6
I agree that I can see both sides of the military issue. I skimmed a lot of it because I am not interested, but I also agree that it can be important to talk about these things that are so stigmatized.
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claudia
Sapphire
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Post by claudia on Jan 11, 2023 9:34:54 GMT -6
I think as we are more removed from the events that led to the war in Afghanistan, it is easy to say the war should not have happened or at least not the way it played out. But I don't think we can place the blame on any one soldier for their actions in the war - I don't know if disclosing the actual number was wise, but in the context of the excerpt along with his remarks earlier in the book about September 11th, joining the military, etc. I think it isn't as bad as the sensational media is making it out to be.
The tabloid press has done this with Finding Freedom, the Battle of the Brothers book (which was definitely not pro Sussex), and the documentary - before people are able to consume the whole thing, they twist certain excerpts into the worst possible light, so that people think they know the story before they actually have it in context.
I hope to finish the audiobook today, so I haven't gotten through it all yet. But I think there is so much nuance around what was and still is a super complicated issue.
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Eagles
Opal
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Post by Eagles on Jan 11, 2023 9:36:03 GMT -6
I'm not saying don't talk about your service and the mental and emotional toll of combat.
Just that the number was probably too much information.
I think I've reached my saturation point with Harry.
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Post by angelashly on Jan 11, 2023 9:47:18 GMT -6
I'm not saying don't talk about your service and the mental and emotional toll of combat. Just that the number was probably too much information. I think I've reached my saturation point with Harry. This I can get behind 100%. We know people died many innocent lives and Soldiers so talking about effects of that is so much needed and I do hope that we can normalize that. I don’t need to hear how many you personally killed
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Post by imapenguin on Jan 11, 2023 9:50:42 GMT -6
Harry does a fair amount of defending Will and Kate in the book too. He points out that they were unfairly called lazy when Charles controlled their engagements and they did exactly as many as he wanted them to. He also says Kate in particular got scolded for overshadowing Charles and Camilla. The post army pre Meghan part of the book is my favorite so far. Just normal details of his life—like buying avocados at the supermarket (shocker—Meghan is not the only person in Britain to ever consume avocado!)
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