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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Sept 26, 2022 12:25:35 GMT -6
I think he threw a little hissy fit, and figured they beg him back. Not fully grasping how deep the racism and the general shittiness of his family ran. And which he was a part of until it no longer suited him. I think there was some embellishment on the complications of his financial situation, in the Oprah interview and other places. I think the no armed security as a private citizen is factual. I think Prince Harry, son of the current King, has avenues he's not admitted to circumvent that but I understand also the principle of being annoyed that his family didn't do that circumventing for him and instead trying to solve it in court. I only brought up his money bc the comment @eagle made about him being "Well off" kind of rang inadequate and despite @sifi's comment about it being "dumb" to go back and forth on it, did not do that. So you honestly believe he only left because of hissy fit? I am sincerely asking. I think that he expected things and didn't get them so I am not at all saying that it isn't possible especially since they were willing to work for the family in other countries, but I just cannot get behind that he only left because they didn't bend to all his demands. I could get on board with the thinking that it was about Harry expecting this or that, but I think any valid claims of it all being pinned down to a "hissy fit" was thrown out the window the evening his pregnant wife told him she no longer wanted to be alive. |
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STP
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Post by STP on Sept 26, 2022 12:25:39 GMT -6
And I think she maybe said "fuck this, let's go," but he's the one who came up with the doomed part time royal, announce before the family had signed off to force their hand plan that so spectacularly backfired. I just don't think the reason Harry isn't participating in things is solely bc of toxic family members like the rest of us would calculate. I think there is miffed feelings over privileges and money, and "but my family's SECURITY AND SAFETY" plays great in the press. And he knows that. It doesn't diminish what Meghan actively goes through or what Diana died from (which I cannot believe has to be said.) I do think security comes into play, but I agree that it is only 1 of the reasons including toxicity and privileges. It comes into play but he knows if he went back to royal work, he'd get it. It's a bargaining thing both sides are using, and it's stupid. Just make sure the kids are safe, JFC. |
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Post by angelashly on Sept 26, 2022 12:25:59 GMT -6
That being said I agree I think if they would have given him some of what he asked for he would have stayed This is the crux. And if they gave it to him now, he'd go back. That was the entire point of my response to loony . I don't think Meghan would go back though and I think he would pick her over the family. Again I could be very wrong |
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Post by STP on Sept 26, 2022 12:27:18 GMT -6
This is the crux. And if they gave it to him now, he'd go back. That was the entire point of my response to loony . I don't think Meghan would go back though and I think he would pick her over the family. Again I could be very wrong Well, and this is kind of where I think people are believing them a bit more than I do. I think she'd go back for the right price. Sorry if that's too cynical for people. |
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Post by angelashly on Sept 26, 2022 12:27:20 GMT -6
I do think security comes into play, but I agree that it is only 1 of the reasons including toxicity and privileges. It comes into play but he knows if he went back to royal work, he'd get it. It's a bargaining thing both sides are using, and it's stupid. Just make sure the kids are safe, JFC. I hate that they are doing this. I know Heir and Spare, but I can also see why Harry would expect his wife to get trainings that Kate got etc. they were both doing the same amount of work. Didn't Kate go to Duchess training or whatever? |
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Post by STP on Sept 26, 2022 12:28:00 GMT -6
MelanieCarmichael, I'm sorry you're taking me so literally that you think I am indifferent to her feeling suicidal. Neat.
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Post by angelashly on Sept 26, 2022 12:28:16 GMT -6
I don't think Meghan would go back though and I think he would pick her over the family. Again I could be very wrong Well, and this is kind of where I think people are believing them a bit more than I do. I think she'd go back for the right price. Sorry if that's too cynical for people. This we will have to agree to disagree until something happens. I think that 2 years ago sure. I think after all the stuff now no she wouldn't |
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Post by STP on Sept 26, 2022 12:28:46 GMT -6
It comes into play but he knows if he went back to royal work, he'd get it. It's a bargaining thing both sides are using, and it's stupid. Just make sure the kids are safe, JFC. I hate that they are doing this. I know Heir and Spare, but I can also see why Harry would expect his wife to get trainings that Kate got etc. they were both doing the same amount of work. Didn't Kate go to Duchess training or whatever? I guess that's not actually true or something, but as someone said up thread, she's been around this her whole life and it was her mother's life's work. |
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Post by STP on Sept 26, 2022 12:29:41 GMT -6
Well, and this is kind of where I think people are believing them a bit more than I do. I think she'd go back for the right price. Sorry if that's too cynical for people. This we will have to agree to disagree until something happens. I think that 2 years ago sure. I think after all the stuff now no she wouldn't Well we don't actually know her, so there's not much point in debating something a person we do not know would do. I'm not on the saint train with either of them, but really not him. |
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Post by STP on Sept 26, 2022 12:30:04 GMT -6
I also think she'll make way more money on the outside, so no I don't know why she would go back.
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Post by MelanieCarmichael on Sept 26, 2022 12:31:15 GMT -6
MelanieCarmichael , I'm sorry you're taking me so literally that you think I am indifferent to her feeling suicidal. Neat. I said nothing whatsoever about you or anyone being indifferent to Meghan feeling suicidal. I said I didn't agree that their primary impetus for leaving in the end was because Harry didn't get his way after throwing a hissy fit, but fear for his wife's life and that of their unborn child. |
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Post by angelashly on Sept 26, 2022 12:31:42 GMT -6
I hate that they are doing this. I know Heir and Spare, but I can also see why Harry would expect his wife to get trainings that Kate got etc. they were both doing the same amount of work. Didn't Kate go to Duchess training or whatever? I guess that's not actually true or something, but as someone said up thread, she's been around this her whole life and it was her mother's life's work. Oh I thought both Meghan and Kate had trainings but Kate got more because she had more time after they got married to "settle into married life" That Finding Freedom book talked about fake kidnappings at least. |
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Post by STP on Sept 26, 2022 12:34:03 GMT -6
MelanieCarmichael , I'm sorry you're taking me so literally that you think I am indifferent to her feeling suicidal. Neat. I said nothing whatsoever about you or anyone being indifferent to Meghan feeling suicidal. I said I didn't agree that their primary impetus for leaving in the end was because Harry didn't get his way after throwing a hissy fit, but fear for his wife's life and that of their unborn child. Neat |
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Post by STP on Sept 26, 2022 12:34:39 GMT -6
I guess that's not actually true or something, but as someone said up thread, she's been around this her whole life and it was her mother's life's work. Oh I thought both Meghan and Kate had trainings but Kate got more because she had more time after they got married to "settle into married life" That Finding Freedom book talked about fake kidnappings at least. Meghan said in the Oprah interview that didn’t happen, for her anyway. |
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Post by angelashly on Sept 26, 2022 12:41:24 GMT -6
Oh I thought both Meghan and Kate had trainings but Kate got more because she had more time after they got married to "settle into married life" That Finding Freedom book talked about fake kidnappings at least. Meghan said in the Oprah interview that didn’t happen, for her anyway. Yes I know that Meghan didn't get the "princess lessons" but she did get the kidnapping one. ArielMermaid may know better but it was very much talked about that Kate did get lessons, but again I am not surprised as Kate is in the line to become Queen Consort so it makes sense. |
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Post by STP on Sept 26, 2022 12:44:15 GMT -6
Meghan said in the Oprah interview that didn’t happen, for her anyway. Yes I know that Meghan didn't get the "princess lessons" but she did get the kidnapping one. ArielMermaid may know better but it was very much talked about that Kate did get lessons, but again I am not surprised as Kate is in the line to become Queen Consort so it makes sense. I was responding to the "I thought Meghan and Kate both got lessons" when we were talking about the duchess lessons. IDK anything about kidnapping. The Kate lessons stuff came from The Mirror, so IDK. It's The Mirror. I'm sure there are etiquette instructions for everyone, in a finishing school kind of way. Everyone but Meghan, of course. |
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Post by imapenguin on Sept 26, 2022 12:47:04 GMT -6
I’m watching The Crown now, and Charles called Andrew a lesser royal on his wedding day. I know that’s fiction, but as I watched it I was like, I bet he said something similar to Harry during their leaving discussions.
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Post by angelashly on Sept 26, 2022 12:57:55 GMT -6
Yes I know that Meghan didn't get the "princess lessons" but she did get the kidnapping one. ArielMermaid may know better but it was very much talked about that Kate did get lessons, but again I am not surprised as Kate is in the line to become Queen Consort so it makes sense. I was responding to the "I thought Meghan and Kate both got lessons" when we were talking about the duchess lessons. IDK anything about kidnapping. The Kate lessons stuff came from The Mirror, so IDK. It's The Mirror. I'm sure there are etiquette instructions for everyone, in a finishing school kind of way. Everyone but Meghan, of course. The kidnapping stuff was in their book so it could be not real. |
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Eagles
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Post by Eagles on Sept 26, 2022 12:58:49 GMT -6
So are you saying he is using the “no security” argument as a cover? Like he doesn’t want to just come out and say “I want out and don’t want to be close to this family anymore”? Genuinely asking. What are others not believing about his situation? I think he would have ridden the gravy train if it suited him. I also think he loves Megs and if I had to guess is truly very protective of her and their children. But it isn’t surprising it’s turned out this way either. As the ex-monarch the Duke of Windsor was exiled. And didn’t Margaret basically PTFO to some island to drink her life away? Anne is the only one I can think of recently that has really been embraced as a necessary cog in the wheel who isn’t first in line (or their spouse). I think he threw a little hissy fit, and figured they beg him back. Not fully grasping how deep the racism and the general shittiness of his family ran. And which he was a part of until it no longer suited him. I think there was some embellishment on the complications of his financial situation, in the Oprah interview and other places. I think the no armed security as a private citizen is factual. I think Prince Harry, son of the current King, has avenues he's not admitted to circumvent that but I understand also the principle of being annoyed that his family didn't do that circumventing for him and instead trying to solve it in court. I only brought up his money bc the comment Eagles made about him being "Well off" kind of rang inadequate and despite sifl 's comment about it being "dumb" to go back and forth on it, did not do that. eta I can't tag Eagles for some reason. I was wounded but now I've recovered. |
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Post by Eagles on Sept 26, 2022 13:03:12 GMT -6
So you honestly believe he only left because of hissy fit? I am sincerely asking. I think that he expected things and didn't get them so I am not at all saying that it isn't possible especially since they were willing to work for the family in other countries, but I just cannot get behind that he only left because they didn't bend to all his demands. Eh, I thought the way it went down rang of a hissy fit, yes. I think Meghan was on the right side of it, and I think he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. I said this back when it happened. I'm on her side. I side eye him a lot more. I'm here. I believe he's the one who got snatchy about the wedding tiara and yelled "whatever Meghan wants Meghan gets" because he grew up very spoiled. I think he's seen hissy fits work for his father and brother. |
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STP
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Post by STP on Sept 26, 2022 13:07:56 GMT -6
Eh, I thought the way it went down rang of a hissy fit, yes. I think Meghan was on the right side of it, and I think he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. I said this back when it happened. I'm on her side. I side eye him a lot more. I'm here. I believe he's the one who got snatchy about the wedding tiara and yelled "whatever Meghan wants Meghan gets" because he grew up very spoiled. I think he's seen hissy fits work for his father and brother. Careful, now you don’t care about Diana or mental health. Tsk. |
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Eagles
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Post by Eagles on Sept 26, 2022 13:13:56 GMT -6
I'm here. I believe he's the one who got snatchy about the wedding tiara and yelled "whatever Meghan wants Meghan gets" because he grew up very spoiled. I think he's seen hissy fits work for his father and brother. Careful, now you don’t care about Diana or mental health. Tsk. The whole family is dysfunctional af, honestly. |
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beepers
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Post by beepers on Sept 26, 2022 13:30:03 GMT -6
Careful, now you don’t care about Diana or mental health. Tsk. The whole family is dysfunctional af, honestly. Truly. At every level. From marrying all the cousins to marriages for position only. All the weird effing love triangles/squares/octagons. I truly don’t think I can actually understand it other than, whatever role they can play to keep their “position”. Which of course necessitates others being held back, put in their place etc etc. There’s no bringing logic to such a bizarre institution. But still I want it to make sense. |
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sifl
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Post by sifl on Sept 26, 2022 13:40:38 GMT -6
I think the “I don’t know anything about them” has been taken too literally. Like, Meghan obviously knew who the royal family was. But unless she was in a thread like this every day (lol) she wouldn’t really know much beyond big headlines, right? That’s what I thought she meant with that comment.
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sifl
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Post by sifl on Sept 26, 2022 13:44:19 GMT -6
But also I've had to tell my family that things wouldn't be tolerated or they won't see me. I know they think I am dramatic and I am but I also protect my family That being said I agree I think if they would have given him some of what he asked for he would have stayed Yeah that’s the crux of it all. The safety and well being of his family had to come first. He didn’t get that, so they had to leave. To me they really tried to stay. Yeah they made some OTT requests to be able to stay in their terms, but I believe in asking for what you want. I didn’t see it as throwing a fit like some did. To me it looked like negotiations. And the BRF and The Firm were not having it, because they didn’t have any reason to make life easier on their scapegoats. Add in weird family dynamics and hurt feelings and we have a whole mess. |
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sifl
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Post by sifl on Sept 26, 2022 13:46:49 GMT -6
And on the topic of their demands - they knew their value. We all saw it. The way they, especially Meghan, connected with people who otherwise felt invisible to the BRF. Remember the South Africa tour? Them leaving is a huge loss and they had every right to ask for what they wanted to make it safe to stay. IMO.
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Post by beesquared on Sept 26, 2022 14:07:49 GMT -6
I think that you don’t know what you don’t know and Meghan tried to prepare herself, but there was so much more protocol that she could ever hope to figure out on her own. I think Harry didn’t fully understand how much an outsider wouldn’t know. I think the Firm staff happily sabotaged Meghan at ever turn for various reasons and didn’t prepare her when they could, like giving her the lessons they were expecting her to have that Kate got. Didn’t she say Fergie (or someone else?) literally was teaching her how to curtesy in the driveway before her first meeting with the queen?
I think Harry has deep trauma about his mom’s death and Meghan/his kids safety is his line in the sand. He would have been willing to bend on a lot of stuff, but not that. Now that they are out, I don’t think Meghan will ever be willing to fold back in too much. She knows the score now and she will hold a grudge for life. (Grudge isn’t the right word, because I don’t think it’s that petty, but I can’t come up with the right word choice here).
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STP
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Post by STP on Sept 26, 2022 14:14:53 GMT -6
I missed where people said they couldn’t ask for security.
Huh.
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Post by angelashly on Sept 26, 2022 14:22:42 GMT -6
I think that you don’t know what you don’t know and Meghan tried to prepare herself, but there was so much more protocol that she could ever hope to figure out on her own. I think Harry didn’t fully understand how much an outsider wouldn’t know. I think the Firm staff happily sabotaged Meghan at ever turn for various reasons and didn’t prepare her when they could, like giving her the lessons they were expecting her to have that Kate got. Didn’t she say Fergie (or someone else?) literally was teaching her how to curtesy in the driveway before her first meeting with the queen? I think Harry has deep trauma about his mom’s death and Meghan/his kids safety is his line in the sand. He would have been willing to bend on a lot of stuff, but not that. Now that they are out, I don’t think Meghan will ever be willing to fold back in too much. She knows the score now and she will hold a grudge for life. (Grudge isn’t the right word, because I don’t think it’s that petty, but I can’t come up with the right word choice here). agree |
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claudia
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Post by claudia on Sept 26, 2022 14:23:53 GMT -6
But also I've had to tell my family that things wouldn't be tolerated or they won't see me. I know they think I am dramatic and I am but I also protect my family That being said I agree I think if they would have given him some of what he asked for he would have stayed Yeah that’s the crux of it all. The safety and well being of his family had to come first. He didn’t get that, so they had to leave. To me they really tried to stay. Yeah they made some OTT requests to be able to stay in their terms, but I believe in asking for what you want. I didn’t see it as throwing a fit like some did. To me it looked like negotiations. And the BRF and The Firm were not having it, because they didn’t have any reason to make life easier on their scapegoats. Add in weird family dynamics and hurt feelings and we have a whole mess. I think they wanted to talk to his family about leaving but were being stonewalled at every turn, so releasing that statement was their way of forcing their hand. It didn’t work as well as they had hoped, but it did get attention of the people who kept refusing to meet. |
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