Sleep issues

[jewels]

Ok I feel like a first time mom here but I’m struggling

We switched B’s crib to a toddler bed a few weeks ago. Since we did that, life has been hell. He refuses to stay in his bed or room at all. It has progressively been getting worse and tonight i had to tap out Bc he was physically hurting me.

He’s almost 4 but acts much more like a 2.5-3 year old. He doesnt care about threats, removal of toys, or anything else i can think of.

It seems so silly but I can not seem to get him to settle down. And then once he does, he will only go to sleep if mh or I sit on his room. Which is fine now but eventually mh will be working again and then I can’t just focus on him and not put S to bed

Help me

[peachsmama]

Is he in his own room?

[guster]

First of all, I’m so sorry.
Do you think he misses the security of the crib? If that’s it, maybe you could give him a sleeping bag to sleep in inside of the toddler bed.
Or maybe a weighted blanket.

[wedding]

It sounds like he’s not tired or just wound up. Or is he scared like he lost his sense of security?

If scared I got nothing. If wound up have you adjusted his bedtime? Would you consider locking him in? I know it’s not ideal but we had to with C for safety reasons. He would basically keep himself busy and then go to sleep when he was tired. That was in the 2-3 age range and I remember the novelty wore off in a few weeks and he stopped the shenanigans.

Around 4 we started melatonin to help him wind down and that helped a lot. Just the Zarbees Sleep which is 1mg. It wouldn’t knock him out but it would make him drowsy enough where he wouldn’t want to be a crazy person. You could always try that short term to see if it helps reset him.

[inthekitty]

I also had to lock M in her room. She would get violent and destructive. There was no reasoning with her when she was like that.

I like the suggestion of a weighted blanket/sleeping bag/railing for security.

Perhaps a bedtime routine that starts outside of his room so he's calmed down before he goes in there (reading/songs in a rocker in the living room).

Setting a timer of how long you'll sit with him in his room with the caveat that you'll leave right away if he gets physical.

Have him choose his calm down activity (giving him a sense of control) like a story or back rub.

The girls love listening to music on their Alexa Dots before bed.

You might have tried some of this stuff already but just throwing some ideas out there. I'm sorry because sleep issues are so frustrating. You're already drained from the day and it sucks to end it on a bad note.

[vino]

B had sleep issues for years, the stars have to align ever so perfectly to ensure he falls asleep and stays asleep. It is getting better but I struggled for a long time.
I went through exactly what you’re saying, it is tiring and frustrating. But it will get better, you just have to communicate and stick with it.

I used to stay in his room and basically crawl out of there cause any sort of movement he would wake up, it was awful. So here are some things I tried.
-i told him we were done with me sitting in his room, it was matter of fact. The day was done and it was time for bed, zero emotions in it.
-have a VERY set routine, teeth, washroom, bath, pyjamas, 3 books, sip of water, set gro clock, tuck into bed, prayers
-my saving grace was setting the timer on my phone. During the day one day he picked the sound and understood it was for 3 minutes and then I’d be out of the room. We chatted about everything during the day, nothing was ‘sprung’ on him at nighttime.
-first night we went through the motions and he lost his mind when I left the room, but I went in and just put him back to bed. If he came out numerous times, I think I just told him the bedtime routine and day was done, time for sleep.
-second night was worst than the first, but I followed through
-third night he winced a bit but never left his bed

MH was useless and was getting emotions involved so I sent him out to do an errand. I actually stood at the kitchen Island with a glass of wine near his bedroom so I wouldn’t be annoyed if I was sitting and relaxing or doing chores and he’d be ‘interrupting’ me (maybe I’m the only one that gets annoyed at this, but when I walk out of your room it’s me time) My focus was solely on getting him to stay in his room.

So all that to say, communicate during the day any changes that are going to happen that night and keep emotions out of it, even the extra happy like ‘YOU’LL BE SUCH A BIG BOY’ cause it sounds like that doesn’t motivate him at all.

If I think of anything else I’ll come back to this. Good luck you can totally do this; make a plan, communicate and stick with it.

[nam2013]

Pfff I’m sorry you’re dealing with this, we’ve had sleep issues with both kids (when they were younger) and it really sucks to end a day like this. You’ve probably have already tried and thought about all of these, but could it be that he’s too tired?

vino is saying a lot of the things I would say/do to. We also have a very strict bedtime routine, bath, teeth, pyjamas, stories with dh, three songs by me, hugs/kisses, it adds up to around 30 minutes. Sometimes I will add a little chat/extra cuddle, but with a set time. For us it also helped to ‘tackle’ the usual suspects before leaving the room
it’s so dark —> ‘we’ve put your nightlight on’
I’m thirsty —> ‘do want a sip of water before you turn in’
I need to pee —> ‘do you need to go to the toilet one last time before bed’

Oh and maybe a little weird, but we still have baby monitors in both rooms, sometimes when they lie down a thought/question pops up in their head and they’ll ask it through the monitor, but for the most part it’s the knowledge we can hear them that feels safe (for all of us).

Plus since he’s almost 4, I’d talk to him, why doesn’t he go to/stay bed, what would help him?

Big hugs, sleep issues suck big time!

[peachsmama]

Since he's old enough to understand I would talk him through it during the day like vino said. Maybe 2 separate conversations. One about why he doesn't like the new bed and why it isn't okay to throw these fits. And later about the routine. Let him decide certain things so he feels involved.

[klong11]

I agree with routine. Cadence still goes wild at bedtime if it isn't exact. I don't have much room to talk since we still stay in there until she's asleep.
Sometimes when I can tell she will fall asleep I'll tell her I have to go to the bathroom and will be right back, then just never go back because she falls asleep in that time.

She goes in at 8 with mh where they are supposed to read and book and settle
Sometimes she falls asleep then (with the help of melatonin)
On the nights we don't give melatonin I go in at 8:30
I'll read her 3 books
Lights out
I turn Violet on for 15 minutes of soft music
She usually falls asleep within 5-10 minutes

It's been a lot of work to get to this point. And some nights it doesn't happen this way. Some nights she whines and throws a fit and it takes forever, but there are more good nights than bad now.

ETA: it's def. about setting the mood. Dim lights, soft music, whispering voices. It's night time, everyone is going to sleep, or at least he needs to think everyone is.

[tgrimes]

jewels If you already have a set routine, you haven't changed anything other than the crib to bed, and he won't fall asleep unless you're in his room, I would recommend the chair method. Stay in his room sitting in the chair until he falls asleep. Every 3 days you move the chair closer to the door. Eventually, the chair will be outside the door. If he gets up from the bed, tell him to lay back down. If you have to, physically put him in his bed and then sit back in the chair.

The sleep sense program recommends moving the chair every 3 days and on the 10th day it would be out of the room to where he can't see you, only hear you. My boss (who hired the sleep consultant) just did this and it's worked. He didnt' feel comfortable moving the chair every 3 days though. It was more like every 5.

I'm happy to give you my login to the program.

[tgrimes]

Also, there's no harm in giving melatonin.

[jewels]

OK thank you all for the thoughtful responses. I am going to try to respond as best I can.

1) He loves the new bed, and yes, it's in his own room, and I don't think he's afraid of it or anything. He loves to play on it and likes to talk about it all the time. I really think it's a freedom thing - he's never had that freedom before. Also, he is a VERY strong willed kid. So when he decides he wants to walk around or do whatever, there is no talking him out of it.

2) We do talk all the time and he says he's going to listen, not hit, etc. But then he does it anyway.

3) I definitely take the emotion out of it and talk quietly, etc. "B, it's time to stay in your bed. I'll sit here with you if you are quiet and stay in your bed" etc. H

4) He's always taken a while to fall asleep but was always fine to just roll around in his crib till it happened. Once asleep, he's a heavy sleeper and will sleep through the night 95% of the time.

5) We have the same routine for the boys since as long as I can remember, and it hasn't changed, and includes all the soft talking, dim lights, etc.

6) I like the idea of a timer. Maybe even tell him once lights are out, he can stay in his bed or wander around his room but once the timer goes of he has to be in bed. He might like that control.

7) I do leave when he gets out of control or physical but he just follows me out of the room. I guess a lock would solve that but there is too much in his room I would worry about (like climbing bookshelves, etc).

8) I do have a monitor in his room - I talked to him through it one time and he flipped the F out. It terrified him. So we don't do that anymore, lol.

9)I need to get him re-evaluated, but I really think he is not functioning as most almost 4 year olds would. He just doesn't always "get it". So sometimes these talks just go over his head, I think.

Thanks guys, I think I have some good ideas to try tonight. We'll see how it goes! I really feel this is a battle of wills, not anything that he needs melotonin or anything, and I don't think he is under or over tired as we haven't changed the bedtime, only the crib to a toddler bed.

[jewels]

tgrimes, I forgot to mention the falling asleep with me in the room thing started during quarantine. Occasionally I would pull the klong11 trick of I'm going to the bathroom and I'll come check on you in a bit and then not come back. It's just gotten so much worse since the bed.

I think I need to get him to stay in his bed first, then worry about getting out of the room. but I need to trust him to stay in his bed and not be crazy before that.

[nam2013]

jewels oh that reminded me, when we got Dd her new bed, which she loooooves, she climbed out of bed and walked over to ds’s room or started playing every single night for about three/four weeks. I was fed up with walking two walking two flights of stairs multiple times each night, so as the true mean mommy I am, I threatened to put her crib back if she didn’t stay in her bed after we’d put her down. It worked 😳🤷🏼‍♀️.

[peachsmama]

Jul 22, 2020 8:53:42 GMT -6 jewels said:

OK thank you all for the thoughtful responses. I am going to try to respond as best I can.

1) He loves the new bed, and yes, it's in his own room, and I don't think he's afraid of it or anything. He loves to play on it and likes to talk about it all the time. I really think it's a freedom thing - he's never had that freedom before. Also, he is a VERY strong willed kid. So when he decides he wants to walk around or do whatever, there is no talking him out of it.

2) We do talk all the time and he says he's going to listen, not hit, etc. But then he does it anyway.

3) I definitely take the emotion out of it and talk quietly, etc. "B, it's time to stay in your bed. I'll sit here with you if you are quiet and stay in your bed" etc. H

4) He's always taken a while to fall asleep but was always fine to just roll around in his crib till it happened. Once asleep, he's a heavy sleeper and will sleep through the night 95% of the time.

5) We have the same routine for the boys since as long as I can remember, and it hasn't changed, and includes all the soft talking, dim lights, etc.

6) I like the idea of a timer. Maybe even tell him once lights are out, he can stay in his bed or wander around his room but once the timer goes of he has to be in bed. He might like that control.

7) I do leave when he gets out of control or physical but he just follows me out of the room. I guess a lock would solve that but there is too much in his room I would worry about (like climbing bookshelves, etc).

8) I do have a monitor in his room - I talked to him through it one time and he flipped the F out. It terrified him. So we don't do that anymore, lol.

9)I need to get him re-evaluated, but I really think he is not functioning as most almost 4 year olds would. He just doesn't always "get it". So sometimes these talks just go over his head, I think.

Thanks guys, I think I have some good ideas to try tonight. We'll see how it goes! I really feel this is a battle of wills, not anything that he needs melotonin or anything, and I don't think he is under or over tired as we haven't changed the bedtime, only the crib to a toddler bed.

Bedtime troubles just suck! I hope you find the magic combo that works for him.

[tgrimes]

jewels I have the same problem with H being almost 4 but definitely doesn't comprehend like anyone else his age, so I totally get it. We had a huge issue with him when we switched out of the crib. He was a perfectly fine sleeper prior to that. He still sometimes walks out of his room after I leave.

[trtlcrzy]

Jul 22, 2020 9:04:32 GMT -6 jewels said:

tgrimes, I forgot to mention the falling asleep with me in the room thing started during quarantine. Occasionally I would pull the klong11 trick of I'm going to the bathroom and I'll come check on you in a bit and then not come back. It's just gotten so much worse since the bed.

I think I need to get him to stay in his bed first, then worry about getting out of the room. but I need to trust him to stay in his bed and not be crazy before that.

I did the sleep sense program with H. The first 3ish nights you sit right next to the bed so you should be just fine keeping him there. As the nights progress you work your way further away from the bed and closer to the door and you also interact with him less.

[jewels]

Jul 22, 2020 9:08:10 GMT -6 nam2013 said:

jewels oh that reminded me, when we got Dd her new bed, which she loooooves, she climbed out of bed and walked over to ds’s room or started playing every single night for about three/four weeks. I was fed up with walking two walking two flights of stairs multiple times each night, so as the true mean mommy I am, I threatened to put her crib back if she didn’t stay in her bed after we’d put her down. It worked 😳🤷🏼‍♀️.

Lol I threatened that last night. He looked me straight in the eyes and laughed

[tgrimes]

Jul 22, 2020 10:46:50 GMT -6 jewels said:

Jul 22, 2020 9:08:10 GMT -6 nam2013 said:

jewels oh that reminded me, when we got Dd her new bed, which she loooooves, she climbed out of bed and walked over to ds’s room or started playing every single night for about three/four weeks. I was fed up with walking two walking two flights of stairs multiple times each night, so as the true mean mommy I am, I threatened to put her crib back if she didn’t stay in her bed after we’d put her down. It worked 😳🤷🏼‍♀️.

Lol I threatened that last night. He looked me straight in the eyes and laughed

H would love to go back to the crib.  He still asks to sleeps in the pack n play at my in laws' house.

[klong11]

I should reiterate that I have no clue on sleep issues. Last night, since mh wasn't home, I let her fall asleep with the tablet(so I could binge Indian Matchmaking on Netflix) and then she woke up at midnight screaming for me because of "the shadows" (ongoing struggle, she has a night light, girl just fakes this shadow shit to get sympathy from my mom) and came to my bed where she snored all night and I got very little sleep.

[yummeecookee]

jewels, I’m sorry you’re struggling. I don’t have anything to add, just commiserations. C is a bed time nightmare as well, one that we still haven’t been able to fix and he will be 5 in Nov!
It got so bad that I took him to a therapist last Fall/Winter (he kept saying he was scared to be by himself and would go hysterical if he was by himself in a room). Most nights he falls asleep in the hallway outside of his room. =/