jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 10, 2019 9:20:05 GMT -6
Where has Sen Bennet been?
He’s so...normal
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Feb 10, 2019 9:39:39 GMT -6
A good thread on the green new deal.
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Post by cakewench on Feb 10, 2019 10:22:16 GMT -6
H watches Stephanopoulos every week and today he had on Pecker’s lawyer, who was trying to explain that what Pecker did wasn’t extortion. H said George’s expression was the very definition of “WTAF?!”.
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Post by greykitty on Feb 10, 2019 10:26:58 GMT -6
UO here (which I seem to have a lot) I think the NGD still has to do a better job on explaining financing, and I hope it wasn't a fatal misstep to have that 'unwilling to work' line in the one FAQ that was sent around, including the copy the NPR saw. The devil is in the details, including being cognizant of wording implications and no amount of saying early draft inadvertently released is going to overcome that.
I see they're backing away from the line, saying it was a 'bad copy' and also saying, oh, we meant coal miners who had 40 years in that industry and shouldn't be forced to reinvent themselves - but that's not what the take away is going to be for most voters. and it may well overshadow the rest of the program going forward. Are we totally shooting ourselves in the foot with this? Have we forgotten how to sell something to an entire spectrum of voters? Or is it just political inexperience showing its head (which kind of reminds me of Trump in a lot of ways LOL)
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,752 Likes: 94,434
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 10, 2019 11:00:52 GMT -6
UO here (which I seem to have a lot) I think the NGD still has to do a better job on explaining financing, and I hope it wasn't a fatal misstep to have that 'unwilling to work' line in the one FAQ that was sent around, including the copy the NPR saw. The devil is in the details, including being cognizant of wording implications and no amount of saying early draft inadvertently released is going to overcome that. I see they're backing away from the line, saying it was a 'bad copy' and also saying, oh, we meant coal miners who had 40 years in that industry and shouldn't be forced to reinvent themselves - but that's not what the take away is going to be for most voters. and it may well overshadow the rest of the program going forward. Are we totally shooting ourselves in the foot with this? Have we forgotten how to sell something to an entire spectrum of voters? Or is it just political inexperience showing its head (which kind of reminds me of Trump in a lot of ways LOL) Here’s my thought on a lot of platforms We need big ideas. I think the bigger the better We’re going to the moon. People said it couldn’t be done. We did it. We need big thinkers. Things are always going to be pared down. But if we always think small and nitpick something out of a second or third draft we will continue to be stagnant while the rest of the world passes us by. I feel the same way with Medicare for all. Can we implement it tomorrow? No but it should be a goal for everyone in this country to have affordable health care coverage and if that’s the end goal I’m cool with it
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Post by Uncaripswife on Feb 10, 2019 11:11:47 GMT -6
The nitty gritty details will get hammered out in committee (hopefully). We have to start somewhere. Asking for the first draft of the GND to be perfect before the light of day is not unlike progressives demanding their perfect candidate and refusing to vote for anyone but said unicorn candidate.
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,752 Likes: 94,434
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 10, 2019 11:17:50 GMT -6
I want to add cynicism is important as well. There needs to be a healthy balance
I just don’t want possibilities discounted out of hand.
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Post by greykitty on Feb 10, 2019 11:34:19 GMT -6
I agree that you have to start somewhere, and you have to ask for the sun to get the moon. But....sending out wording that will never leave the internet about guaranteed income for those 'unwilling to work' isn't asking for the sun - it's triggering a visceral response that could derail the entire wish list and even worse, get people to actively work against it. How could OCA's staff been so careless about what could be the foundational crusade of her whole political career?
Giving the impression you're going to eliminate air traffic is going to make people say, huh', not, 'great idea why didn't we do it before'? Heck, I'm in a state where we've been trying for high speed rail for a while - we can't even get St Louis-Chicago done on time and on budget.
People have to not only be imaginative about new programs - they have to be smart about getting people's buy in and willing to compromise to get to the good, not the perfect. I think this GND roll out as planned really hurt the platform, rather than building support for it
And Kennedy couldn't have gotten the support for the moon shot if people hadn't been so afraid of the space race at the time. And look at the non-support of NASA objectives since then. We should have been so much further along by now.
And I really fear litmus tests as well. And I'm getting really scared about 2020. I'm really starting to think Democrats will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, the way things are going.
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Post by cakewench on Feb 10, 2019 13:17:51 GMT -6
Rob Lowe tweets something moronic about Warren:
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Post by PandaWatch on Feb 10, 2019 13:59:13 GMT -6
This thread contradicts my assumption that reporters have not and would not make a big deal about a male politician abusing staffers. It’s important to fact check ourselves.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Feb 10, 2019 14:09:37 GMT -6
Yikes.
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,391 Likes: 220,570
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Post by jaygee on Feb 10, 2019 14:19:19 GMT -6
This thread contradicts my assumption that reporters have not and would not make a big deal about a male politician abusing staffers. It’s important to fact check ourselves. I think it’s more nuanced than it being a story or not. I think some of the stuff in the initial report wouldn’t have been a story for a man. They said things like she has really “high standards” and told the story about post it’s reprimanding late employees. Those are weak. But then some of the other points like pubically ridiculing and throwing stuff, has more substance and I think would be reported male or female. I don’t know. I think this topic is fair game and it’s just kind of watch the margins and take some of it with a grain of salt. The more that comes out though it’s seeming (to me) that it’s beyond sexist treatment by the media and that there is something concerning there. I’m not saying it’s a deal breaker, but it’s not what I want to hear about a top candidate.
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,391 Likes: 220,570
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Post by jaygee on Feb 10, 2019 14:20:16 GMT -6
I reported T’s racist Trail of Tears tweet this morning. It made me feel in control of something. 🤬
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fatpony
Amethyst
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Post by fatpony on Feb 10, 2019 14:36:36 GMT -6
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sweetpea
Platinum
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Post by sweetpea on Feb 10, 2019 15:04:54 GMT -6
Rob Lowe tweets something moronic about Warren: Every once in a while he RT or likes a Trump-ish supporter; I fear he’s not Sam Seaborn and I may have to unfollow soon
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Minerva
Ruby
Posts: 15,381 Likes: 67,036
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Post by Minerva on Feb 10, 2019 15:26:47 GMT -6
UO here (which I seem to have a lot) I think the NGD still has to do a better job on explaining financing, and I hope it wasn't a fatal misstep to have that 'unwilling to work' line in the one FAQ that was sent around, including the copy the NPR saw. The devil is in the details, including being cognizant of wording implications and no amount of saying early draft inadvertently released is going to overcome that. I see they're backing away from the line, saying it was a 'bad copy' and also saying, oh, we meant coal miners who had 40 years in that industry and shouldn't be forced to reinvent themselves - but that's not what the take away is going to be for most voters. and it may well overshadow the rest of the program going forward. Are we totally shooting ourselves in the foot with this? Have we forgotten how to sell something to an entire spectrum of voters? Or is it just political inexperience showing its head (which kind of reminds me of Trump in a lot of ways LOL) I think a lot of what is in the NGD is really just common sense, both financially and economically. A lot of it is stuff that either party could have included in legislation in the late 90s/early aughts. The hard right turn of the GOP makes it seem more contentious than it should. It’s also still big ideas being kicked around - the details of wording will get ironed right out in the legislative process. The way I see it, the USA is slipping backwards in our economy. It’s increasingly less economically resilient due to our inaction in failing to transition communities that rely on limited natural resources and outdated manufacturing or fossil fuel economies to service and green technology-focused economies. At the same time, jobs are increasingly gig-based and the expectation is that people will switch jobs and cobble together work as freelancers, contractors, or entrepreneurs. So many companies don’t want to pay for FT w/ benefits. We can no longer depend on a model where employers provide the only reliable access to health benefits, retirement, or life insurance. At this point, we would benefit from public options for all three of those things, along with updated unemployment insurance or some other way to make sure people between gigs can afford food and shelter. We also can no longer pretend that the environmental crises that were predicted decades ago are in some distant hypothetical future. They are affecting us everyday in terms of health, geopolitical stability, and the USA’s economic security. Obviously the transition is the issue. Figuring out how to get from where we are to where we need to be when the D’s have limited political capital, corporate interests rule DC, and people have short attention spans. But the way I see it, we are already frogs in a pot and the water is warmer than just lukewarm. I’m glad someone is doing something. We have to put our big ideas out there and then negotiate our asses off to get whatever we can that will help.
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Post by greykitty on Feb 10, 2019 16:44:18 GMT -6
I agree that the rise of the gig economy without an equal rise in readily accessible insurance coverage is disastrous for so many. That said, I guess I don't have the same faith in ironing things out in committee unless Congress is pretty on board for a given topic - look at Nancy Pelosi's experience with cap & trade in pretty recent years. Let alone the Clinton and Obama runs at universal healthcare.
I guess I'm hoping that people (both politicians and voters) realize how long it can take to pass legislation that we take for granted today. I was just reading a little about how Medicare itself came about - its long and controversial road to even being considered for a vote and now so many people tend to think it was included in the Bill of Rights. And geez, LBJ not only was renowned as a legislative twister of arms, he also had a mourning nation and a landslide victory to work with.
I just keep thinking, as mentioned above, people have such short attention spans. I also think they become so fixated on perfect rather than good, ideal rather than pragmatic, that we'll have the extreme wings of both parties fail to negotiate and just take their balls home. I just wish this GND roll out hadn't practically handed out talking points that adversaries could use so well in a twitter-saturated environment.
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,391 Likes: 220,570
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Post by jaygee on Feb 10, 2019 17:25:55 GMT -6
In my mind, GND is not really feasible until Dems have the house, Senate, and POTUS. I think it’s good to get people comfortable with the ideas and start hashing out policy now.
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Post by flippinchica on Feb 10, 2019 17:38:51 GMT -6
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mb3
Sapphire
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Post by mb3 on Feb 10, 2019 17:40:51 GMT -6
Is public life insurance being proposed? What does that even look like?
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Minerva
Ruby
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Post by Minerva on Feb 10, 2019 18:13:02 GMT -6
Is public life insurance being proposed? What does that even look like? I don’t think so, it was just an example of one of the benefits that many working Americans no longer have available in a realistic way in a gig economy. A problem that needs a solution. I tend to agree that it is unlikely that little of it gets passed in the next two years.
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Post by sherminator on Feb 10, 2019 19:40:43 GMT -6
I'm north of Ill ::kicks snow clods:: But I'm down with any Richmond trip! I went to VCU for a couple of years! Go Rams! What years where you there? I wonder if we there at the same time. How crazy would that be? I'm pretty old, so mid/late 80's. I lived in the fan, was pretty punk rock at the time. I loved Richmond- Grace st days. Id love to plan a trip out there. The dorms have SIGNIFICANTLY upgraded, I see. I lived in Franklin Hall one year
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RajahMD
Amethyst
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Post by RajahMD on Feb 10, 2019 20:20:28 GMT -6
Go Rams! What years where you there? I wonder if we there at the same time. How crazy would that be? I'm pretty old, so mid/late 80's. I lived in the fan, was pretty punk rock at the time. I loved Richmond- Grace st days. Id love to plan a trip out there. The dorms have SIGNIFICANTLY upgraded, I see. I lived in Franklin Hall one year Yeah, that's before my time. I've been here since the mid 2000's. And yeah, the dorms have way improved. They're building a new one almost every year. Did you ever live in Rhoads? Somehow that one is still standing, lol.
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byjove
Ruby
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Post by byjove on Feb 10, 2019 21:24:56 GMT -6
Do you think OPM’s increased use of delays and early dismissals, etc, are an act of resistance?
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Post by blurnette989 on Feb 11, 2019 2:04:08 GMT -6
Go Rams! What years where you there? I wonder if we there at the same time. How crazy would that be? I'm pretty old, so mid/late 80's. I lived in the fan, was pretty punk rock at the time. I loved Richmond- Grace st days. Id love to plan a trip out there. The dorms have SIGNIFICANTLY upgraded, I see. I lived in Franklin Hall one year Awwwww I lived on Grace too! Love the fan. Also my first apartment in the fan was nicknamed "the squatter's paradise" so while I lived there much later, it has still retained much of that awesome grittiness.
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Post by Uncaripswife on Feb 11, 2019 5:53:56 GMT -6
Do you think OPM’s increased use of delays and early dismissals, etc, are an act of resistance? The opposite. The administration thinks civil servants are freeloaders and so doesn't want to shut down for significant weather events. We're forced to burn our own leave or figure out how to get to the office in bad weather, unless we have a telework agreement.
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byjove
Ruby
Posts: 15,467 Likes: 75,697
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Post by byjove on Feb 11, 2019 7:31:13 GMT -6
Do you think OPM’s increased use of delays and early dismissals, etc, are an act of resistance? The opposite. The administration thinks civil servants are freeloaders and so doesn't want to shut down for significant weather events. We're forced to burn our own leave or figure out how to get to the office in bad weather, unless we have a telework agreement. But it seems like these 2 hr delay events in the past would have been days everyone was just expected to report on time, no?
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Post by notblanche on Feb 11, 2019 7:42:47 GMT -6
I am surprised by this morning’s delay. I could buy in to your theory byjove.
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Post by Uncaripswife on Feb 11, 2019 8:39:48 GMT -6
The opposite. The administration thinks civil servants are freeloaders and so doesn't want to shut down for significant weather events. We're forced to burn our own leave or figure out how to get to the office in bad weather, unless we have a telework agreement. But it seems like these 2 hr delay events in the past would have been days everyone was just expected to report on time, no? I don't know. Not so much today, but other times I think they would have just closed Washington offices for the day.
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