jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Feb 5, 2019 7:47:52 GMT -6
This made me lol. We need an lol this morning.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 7:49:55 GMT -6
I am reading the Washington Post article, dismayed. I read the statement from the Lt Gov's office yesterday morning and assumed the accusations were a false flag; I regret that. Same. Goddamnit. Now to get both of them to resign. Shit. Our state government is going to fall apart. Holy hell. Yep, I'm trying to figure out how this ends. Concurrent resignations (my preference) means Gov. Herring (does anyone know if he has skeletons in his closet?), what is less clear is how to replace an LG once the LG becomes Gov. This is really a mess.
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 5, 2019 7:56:50 GMT -6
And yes I realize this country is founded on innocent until proven guilty, unless you are a black man walking down the street minding your own business or a women who has been assaulted or any other disenfranchised person, because you are obviously 'unreliable'. It happens enough we should start from a point of believing the victim. I understand that feeling - however, I cannot disagree strongly enough with the guilty until proven innocent concept. I get it. But the way we have gone is you are only immediately innocent if you are in a power position. People who are not in/have no power are assumed guilty.
Stone gets out on 250k signature bond for crimes against the United States But a 16 year old kid who resembled a person who stole a backpack, spent how long in Rikers? AND WAS innocent. then committed suicide.
How many rich white people are sitting in the county jail awaiting trial OR even get to that point after committing crimes?
How many women have had their lives ruined because a powerful man assaulted them and when they did have the courage to come forward were met with you were asking for it?
We need a better way. Innocent until guilty only works if you have a presumption of the 'right' life.
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RajahMD
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Post by RajahMD on Feb 5, 2019 7:58:16 GMT -6
Same. Goddamnit. Now to get both of them to resign. Shit. Our state government is going to fall apart. Holy hell. Yep, I'm trying to figure out how this ends. Concurrent resignations (my preference) means Gov. Herring (does anyone know if he has skeletons in his closet?), what is less clear is how to replace an LG once the LG becomes Gov. This is really a mess. So, from my understanding, the Lt Gov's main role (well, only role) is presiding over the state Senate. From what I've read, that role would go to the majority leader of the Senate. What I've thus far been unable to find is if that person would become Lt Gov or just take on the role of presiding over the Senate. No fucking clue what happens if they both resign at once. Or what happens if they resign out of order, ie Fairfax then Northam. Would the Senate majority leader become Lt Gov and then Gov? I have no idea, and I haven't found a good answer online.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 5, 2019 7:59:40 GMT -6
Another TRMS A block about our idiot governor.
Thus is sucking up all the oxygen in the room.
Every hour that passes without his resignation makes me more angry.
GTFO DUDE
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 5, 2019 8:00:43 GMT -6
Welp, she has hired Christine Blasey Ford’s legal team. Virginia will be a mess for a while. Whoa! Good for her!
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Post by greykitty on Feb 5, 2019 8:02:40 GMT -6
jkjacq, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I agree that there are serious flaws in how innocent until proven guilty may be applied - but I cannot agree that the better way is guilty until proven innocent. It's kind of, to me, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Feb 5, 2019 8:04:34 GMT -6
jkjacq , I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I agree that there are serious flaws in how innocent until proven guilty may be applied - but I cannot agree that the better way is guilty until proven innocent. It's kind of, to me, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I really appreciate your POV as well.
I'm just insanely frustrated with the whole thing.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 5, 2019 8:06:07 GMT -6
JukEboX the thing is, the women who bring these kinds of allegations often face awful consequences. Blasey Ford couldn't live with her family and had death threats. It's a hard sell to tell some woman to go through that for a false accusation. Oh I totally agree. The fact that Dr. Ford still is being threatened is disgusting. And I am not saying that either side would have to find someone to go through the role of victim. I am saying that someone could Photoshop or deepfake a video or fake a story to send to a news outlet calling out said person and then chaos ensues and because of that distraction leads to ineffectiveness and out they go. It seems to me in the current state of the Internet and climate it is easy to feed the sharks to remove someone you don't want in their current position. I wouldn't put it past the GOP to do it but more and more the Dems are starting to show a darker side of not playing fair either. Its starting to creep me out. There is no honor anymore. I mean Jacob Wohl tried the false allegation thing against Mueller and it was a complete failure so these types of concerns may be overblown
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 5, 2019 8:12:25 GMT -6
jkjacq, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I agree that there are serious flaws in how innocent until proven guilty may be applied - but I cannot agree that the better way is guilty until proven innocent. It's kind of, to me, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I just don't think there's any black and white solution here. Part of the problem is that this reckoning is long overdue. And there are legitimate questions about consent intertwining with power structures that make all of these situations unique. I don't think we need to cancel every male who gets a finger pointed at him, but when a victim comes forward, we should start from a place of believing them if, for no other reason, than empathy
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 5, 2019 8:13:17 GMT -6
Herring wants to run for Governor next cycle so I should think he's done his internal vetting.
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Post by greykitty on Feb 5, 2019 8:14:40 GMT -6
jkjacq , the frustration is totally understood - and I think shared by millions including myself. I really have to struggle with my own biases every day - well, guess I'm pretty human there. I guess that's one reason I treasure a legal framework that at least theoretically sets a higher bar for me. Otherwise, pretty sure I'd be happy jailing any number of people every single day, left to my own devices. LOL
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 5, 2019 8:15:03 GMT -6
This is definitely a calculated attack on the Virginia Democratic party. The guys who run that site used to work for Corey Stewart and Roy Moore.
But that doesn't change anything about how we have to proceed here.
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maybe
Sapphire
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Post by maybe on Feb 5, 2019 8:16:20 GMT -6
I have virtually no degrees of separation from these people so this has all made me do a lot of soul searching today. The story as it has been reported has so many blurred lines to it that unless a bunch of other women come out and say this is a pattern, I don't think there will be good resolution for anyone and it's heartbreaking and infuriating. The woman still has so much more to lose by coming forward, especially in a tightly knit minority community. His career may be permanently damaged over something that he could honestly believe to have been a mutually satisfying encounter. He stated that she asked him to meet her mom a few years later. I understand that victims will do things like that and that also sometimes we may not realize that what we experienced was not OK/normal until we are older and know better.
The standards of acceptable behavior have changed a lot over the last 15 years and I think those changes are good for society and women overall but this individual case is just heartbreaking. I will always support the woman for coming out but this is just a lose, lose in all directions.
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maybe
Sapphire
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Post by maybe on Feb 5, 2019 8:20:48 GMT -6
This is definitely a calculated attack on the Virginia Democratic party. The guys who run that site used to work for Corey Stewart and Roy Moore. But that doesn't change anything about how we have to proceed here. Yes, I am annoyed at him for bringing it up. The victim has worked in politics so she also knew what she was in for when she came forward and then allowed her friend, who is also very politically connected, to share it.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 5, 2019 8:22:35 GMT -6
maybe thinking of you. I imagine being personally connected to this brings a swirl of emotions
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Post by greykitty on Feb 5, 2019 8:25:42 GMT -6
jkjacq , I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I agree that there are serious flaws in how innocent until proven guilty may be applied - but I cannot agree that the better way is guilty until proven innocent. It's kind of, to me, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I just don't think there's any black and white solution here. Part of the problem is that this reckoning is long overdue. And there are legitimate questions about consent intertwining with power structures that make all of these situations unique. I don't think we need to cancel every male who gets a finger pointed at him, but when a victim comes forward, we should start from a place of believing them if, for no other reason, than empathy I think I'm more in that any charge should be investigated. I'm not to the point of assuming someone is guilty immediately, not matter how sympathetic I may be to the person making the complaint is. Or, conversely, even if I think the person making the complaint is more than dubious in my eyes, an investigation should still be undertaken. Emotionally I may want to lock people up and toss away the keys based on my feelings, but that's why we have a legal system.
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kitchen
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Post by kitchen on Feb 5, 2019 8:31:29 GMT -6
Isn't the reality just that a lot of men have done things that are really shitty and it's finally "okay" in a few circumstances for women to speak up (at huge personal cost)?
If nearly all women have either been assaulted and not said anything or have a friend who has been and not said anything it stands that there are a damn lot of men out there who did something.
I realize I'm glossing over a whole lot of intersectional gender identity issues with that.
It bothers me that I'm so conditioned to make excuses for men's behavior that my first impulse after writing that is to make excuses about the circumstances and how culture was different and the didn't know better.
Smash the patriarchy.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 5, 2019 8:45:14 GMT -6
Ok Bernard. I'm going to need you to pick one. Either you're a Democrat and you run in our primary, or you're an Independent and you offer your own SITU rebuttal. Talking over a woman of color.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Feb 5, 2019 8:49:08 GMT -6
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maybe
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Post by maybe on Feb 5, 2019 9:06:15 GMT -6
So, you can text SOTU to 50409 and it will alert you when Trump is done so that you can tune into just Stacy Abrams.
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athn64
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Post by athn64 on Feb 5, 2019 9:07:02 GMT -6
So, you can text SOTU to 50409 and it will alert you when Trump is done so that you can tune into just Stacy Abrams. Perfect. I was trying to figure out how to know this
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maybe
Sapphire
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Post by maybe on Feb 5, 2019 9:19:38 GMT -6
Just hearing Trump's voice makes my skin crawl and makes me angry so I do everything possible to only read his words and not hear him speak them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 10:10:35 GMT -6
Today would have been Trayvon Martin's 24th birthday.
ETA: I see I am late.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Feb 5, 2019 10:14:40 GMT -6
Happy Lunar New Year! I’m bummed that T is going to tarnish this day for those celebrating.
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Post by cakewench on Feb 5, 2019 10:19:10 GMT -6
Happy Lunar New Year! I’m bummed that T is going to tarnish this day for those celebrating. This made me smile, though - Miss Piggy is ALL OVER Year of the Pig
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JukEboX
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Post by JukEboX on Feb 5, 2019 10:34:48 GMT -6
And yes I realize this country is founded on innocent until proven guilty, unless you are a black man walking down the street minding your own business or a women who has been assaulted or any other disenfranchised person, because you are obviously 'unreliable'. It happens enough we should start from a point of believing the victim. I understand that feeling - however, I cannot disagree strongly enough with the guilty until proven innocent concept. I can see where jkjacq is coming from and I can kind of agree with her. You should have to defend your innocence. And on the other hand if you can't and you really haven't done it then your go to jail. That's a HEAVY Punishment. And jkjacq is COMPLETELY right about the double standard. The institutional racism, patriarchy, is hitting the boiling point. Also does anyone have the link to the wa.po ariticle? I am going to try and bring it up on my phone if I can find a signal.
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ktg
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Post by ktg on Feb 5, 2019 10:44:14 GMT -6
Just hearing Trump's voice makes my skin crawl and makes me angry so I do everything possible to only read his words and not hear him speak them. And then I try to read his actual words and just nope right out to some kind of summary/explanation/translation of Trump-to-English.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Feb 5, 2019 10:47:21 GMT -6
So, I don’t know what this says about me but I have to listen to the SOTU. I will scream and retort back but I will be listening. And then I will hate myself.
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JukEboX
Sapphire
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Post by JukEboX on Feb 5, 2019 11:11:29 GMT -6
This is the crap THE_DONALD is peddling today.
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