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Post by GhoatMonket on Nov 2, 2018 10:08:11 GMT -6
Well, when you say that you think the only reason they might not do it is because someone pointed out it's illegal for them, that is what you are implying. Active duty/National Guard can't do a fucking thing there. Someone sneaks across and runs for it? They can't do shit. That's law enforcement. They cannot participate in law enforcement activities on US soil. They can put up concrete barriers, use helicopters to find people and tell Border Patrol, and help fix the vehicles/helicopters. That's about it. Ok, but the cheeto IS like or not Commander in Chief. If he gives an order to his generals that they are to fire on 'the invaders' (his words), aren't they by law obligated to follow it.
Yes I know what the rulebook says.
Also jaygee isn't here to bash the military. If you had read deeper you would know that.
::head desk::
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Nov 2, 2018 10:11:51 GMT -6
Ok, but the cheeto IS like or not Commander in Chief. If he gives an order to his generals that they are to fire on 'the invaders' (his words), aren't they by law obligated to follow it.
Yes I know what the rulebook says.
Also jaygee isn't here to bash the military. If you had read deeper you would know that.
::head desk:: We can have a productive conversation. I promise.
We've touched on posse comitatus earlier. HOWEVER, if a direct order from POTUS says fire if fired upon, REGARDLESS if you are there in a support mode, is it an order that needs to be followed.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Nov 2, 2018 10:17:05 GMT -6
We can have a productive conversation. I promise.
We've touched on posse comitatus earlier. HOWEVER, if a direct order from POTUS says fire if fired upon, REGARDLESS if you are there in a support mode, is it an order that needs to be followed.
Throwing rocks is not firing upon them. The military is required to refuse unlawful orders.
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JukEboX
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Post by JukEboX on Nov 2, 2018 10:21:04 GMT -6
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 2, 2018 10:21:58 GMT -6
We can have a productive conversation. I promise.
We've touched on posse comitatus earlier. HOWEVER, if a direct order from POTUS says fire if fired upon, REGARDLESS if you are there in a support mode, is it an order that needs to be followed.
Throwing rocks is not firing upon them. The military is required to refuse unlawful orders. that's something I have been wondering about: Who is responsible for unlawful orders? Is it up to the Sec Def? North Com? The generals? The individual service member? Who says, "That's illegal and we can't do it?"
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 2, 2018 10:22:23 GMT -6
Also I thought the directive was that throwing rocks was to be treated as live fire?
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Post by GhoatMonket on Nov 2, 2018 10:28:10 GMT -6
Throwing rocks is not firing upon them. The military is required to refuse unlawful orders. that's something I have been wondering about: Who is responsible for unlawful orders? Is it up to the Sec Def? North Com? The generals? The individual service member? Who says, "That's illegal and we can't do it?" That order would never make it out of DC. This is nothing more than a political stunt intended to get both sides wringing their hands- one side over the "invasion" and the other side over the "order". Mission accomplished.
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Nov 2, 2018 10:34:14 GMT -6
A cheerleader on the 49ers knelt during the national anthem last night. 😍
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Post by GhoatMonket on Nov 2, 2018 10:36:32 GMT -6
Also I thought the directive was that throwing rocks was to be treated as live fire? Again- he doesn't get to make that decision. I am out. Please do not tag me in any further discussions on this.
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Nov 2, 2018 10:37:49 GMT -6
that's something I have been wondering about: Who is responsible for unlawful orders? Is it up to the Sec Def? North Com? The generals? The individual service member? Who says, "That's illegal and we can't do it?" That order would never make it out of DC. This is nothing more than a political stunt intended to get both sides wringing their hands- one side over the "invasion" and the other side over the "order". Mission accomplished. In a normal administration I would be behind you all the way with the order would never make it out of DC. But this isn't a normal admin.
We could say that Mattis will not follow through on the order, because he is an adult and understands real world consequences. But what happens when he decides to ignore a direct order from the CiC? court martial? And if Mattis retires and 45 puts another general whose ideology more aligns with his and he sends that order to the field, then what?
I agree that its partially a stunt on 45 part, but his stunts have come to fruition in the past. We have children in cages. Which in itself is a humanitarian violation and NOBODY is stopping him.
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Nov 2, 2018 10:38:35 GMT -6
Well that was quite the drive by..
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 2, 2018 10:39:47 GMT -6
I'm not sure what just happened
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Nov 2, 2018 10:41:57 GMT -6
I'm not sure what just happened From what I've gathered. The military isn't required to follow directives issued by the president. Which is news to me. I mean in the current climate I'm all for it. But still
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Nov 2, 2018 10:43:47 GMT -6
I'm not sure what just happened From what I've gathered. The military isn't required to follow directives issued by the president. Which is news to me. I mean in the current climate I'm all for it. But still quoting myself to say
I think we just orchestrated a coup
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Nov 2, 2018 10:44:18 GMT -6
I mean....sharing what I learned on twitter from military people was my attempt to say “I think this is a non issue”. But, screw me for trying to understand it, I guess.
Happy Friday, y’all.
I guess this is a good time to let you know that I plan to deactivate after the election. I love talking politics with y’all. I do. But I have to step back. I get too invested in it all and my mental health suffers and it’s just a thing for me. Anyways, if you want to connect offline (social media or other ways - probably also scaling way back on social media after 11/6 as well) PM me. 😘
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JukEboX
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Post by JukEboX on Nov 2, 2018 10:48:49 GMT -6
I'm not sure what just happened From what I've gathered. The military isn't required to follow directives issued by the president. Which is news to me. I mean in the current climate I'm all for it. But still I was thinking about this on the ride to work today. Its sad that we are having this conversation about what COULD happen when they get to the border. How has control? Who has the orders? etc. Its just sad and extremely scary. Then I had the thought that if they did open fire that D's from the area would come together and stand in front of military and stand up their lives for the unarmed. At this point if they did fire it would be a Human Right violation and a War Crime. This is how the revolution starts. This is how it gets bad.
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Nov 2, 2018 10:50:35 GMT -6
I mean....sharing what I learned on twitter from military people was my attempt to say “I think this is a non issue”. But, screw me for trying to understand it, I guess. Happy Friday, y’all. I guess this is a good time to let you know that I plan to deactivate after the election. I love talking politics with y’all. I do. But I have to step back. I get too invested in it all and my mental health suffers and it’s just a thing for me. Anyways, if you want to connect offline (social media or other ways - probably also scaling way back on social media after 11/6 as well) PM me. 😘 This makes me sad, but I understand.
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Post by 4PrivetDrive on Nov 2, 2018 10:55:14 GMT -6
I think it's a cluster and 45 didn't consult anyone before saying "rocks can be treated as rifles". I don't possibly see how a rock being thrown could justify the use of force to fire back. I do not see how it would be a legal directive.
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jkjacq
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Post by jkjacq on Nov 2, 2018 10:55:51 GMT -6
Just when I think this state might be making progress, they go and prove me wrong
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jaygee
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Post by jaygee on Nov 2, 2018 10:56:13 GMT -6
I mean....sharing what I learned on twitter from military people was my attempt to say “I think this is a non issue”. But, screw me for trying to understand it, I guess. Happy Friday, y’all. I guess this is a good time to let you know that I plan to deactivate after the election. I love talking politics with y’all. I do. But I have to step back. I get too invested in it all and my mental health suffers and it’s just a thing for me. Anyways, if you want to connect offline (social media or other ways - probably also scaling way back on social media after 11/6 as well) PM me. 😘 This makes me sad, but I understand.
Thanks for understanding. I wish my brain didn’t go full on obsession, negative thought mode all the time, but it does and I have to manage that. I learn so much from y’all and do like that most people here are positive. Trust that when there is breaking news, I’ll find my way back. Lol.
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Post by oreobitsy on Nov 2, 2018 11:14:16 GMT -6
Just when I think this state might be making progress, they go and prove me wrong
Wow. That is incredibly racist. I feel bad for the students that attend the school.
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Post by cakewench on Nov 2, 2018 11:29:12 GMT -6
Interesting analysis of the ideological leanings of Sunday shows.
ETA: In case you needed another reason to have a lady boner for Jake Tapper.
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Dr. Cox
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Post by Dr. Cox on Nov 2, 2018 11:29:43 GMT -6
❤️❤️❤️@jaygee. I’ve really enjoyed posting with you again, but I get it.
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Minerva
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Post by Minerva on Nov 2, 2018 11:34:04 GMT -6
I mean....sharing what I learned on twitter from military people was my attempt to say “I think this is a non issue”. But, screw me for trying to understand it, I guess. Happy Friday, y’all. I guess this is a good time to let you know that I plan to deactivate after the election. I love talking politics with y’all. I do. But I have to step back. I get too invested in it all and my mental health suffers and it’s just a thing for me. Anyways, if you want to connect offline (social media or other ways - probably also scaling way back on social media after 11/6 as well) PM me. 😘 I get this - you have to care for your health, first and foremost. We will miss you! I’ve been struggling for the past month and have had to really limit the amount of time I engage on here (here being politics and GD). I love the politics folks and I wish I could spend more time diving into this stuff, but my anxiety level is right at the edge of not being okay.
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Post by cakewench on Nov 2, 2018 11:34:30 GMT -6
Apparently earlier today Trump conducted foreign policy via Twitter meme (tweeting "Sanctions are coming", re: Iran, complete with Game of Thrones font and pic of him looking VERY SRS).
Darth is having a field day.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 2, 2018 11:50:47 GMT -6
I mean I'll be the first to say I know nothing about the military.
Which is why I was asking questions.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 2, 2018 11:52:01 GMT -6
Interesting analysis of the ideological leanings of Sunday shows. ETA: In case you needed another reason to have a lady boner for Jake Tapper. I hate hate hate the panels on MTP. I mean, Matt Sclapp? Eric Erickson? Really?? C"Mon......Chuck
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 2, 2018 11:53:07 GMT -6
Huh. Maybe I need to start listening to SOTU.
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crunch
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Post by crunch on Nov 2, 2018 12:09:29 GMT -6
I mean....sharing what I learned on twitter from military people was my attempt to say “I think this is a non issue”. But, screw me for trying to understand it, I guess. Happy Friday, y’all. I guess this is a good time to let you know that I plan to deactivate after the election. I love talking politics with y’all. I do. But I have to step back. I get too invested in it all and my mental health suffers and it’s just a thing for me. Anyways, if you want to connect offline (social media or other ways - probably also scaling way back on social media after 11/6 as well) PM me. 😘 I’m really sad about this. :-( FWTW I understood what you were saying.
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dc2london
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Post by dc2london on Nov 2, 2018 12:14:53 GMT -6
Canada plans to sharply increase the number of immigrants and refugees granted entry into the country.
That's what happens when you don't have a soulless demagogue for a leader.
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