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Post by angelashly on Mar 20, 2019 7:24:46 GMT -6
I do think about this privilege and unfair advantage thing a lot. I'm noodling on ways that I can make a contract with myself to share an equal amount of my time and money with DS and with students/a school/a student with fewer advantages. I feel strongly that if I'm spending time to help my own kid learn how to research and write a paper, I should find that same energy to help others in an equal amount. But I need to spend more time thinking through this contract I want because I don't want to jump into some pool of white savior tears. I agree with you, but I also see that as what GhoatMonket said. If I am helping my child at home they will not need the teacher's help as much and therefore give him/her the time to work with other students who may not have that home advantage. I have been known though when she is doing homework with the girl from her girl scouts if we get there early to help them both. It is a fine line |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 7:26:03 GMT -6
I am not reading that at all. I honestly do not believe anyone is on that planet. The post was re-quoted on this page. Read it again. She says helping them means they aren't doing their own work and they don't deserve the grades they get because they got help from a parent and not a teacher. So what if another student helps? Is that cheating? What is it's a sibling? Is that unfair to only children? What about if a tutor helps? Or is that more unfair advantage, even if it's an unpaid tutor? Saying a parent can't help ever because then the kid didn't earn the paper, but literally anyone else can and it's ok is ridiculous. Saying one is an unfair advantage and the other is also an unfair advantage doesn't mean they are on the same level of unfair advantage. Things are not just black and white. But who knows, maybe my reading comprehension is not the best, probably because my parents didn't help me with my homework or read to me. |
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Post by hardlyluck on Mar 20, 2019 7:28:16 GMT -6
The post was re-quoted on this page. Read it again. She says helping them means they aren't doing their own work and they don't deserve the grades they get because they got help from a parent and not a teacher. So what if another student helps? Is that cheating? What is it's a sibling? Is that unfair to only children? What about if a tutor helps? Or is that more unfair advantage, even if it's an unpaid tutor? Saying a parent can't help ever because then the kid didn't earn the paper, but literally anyone else can and it's ok is ridiculous. Saying one is an unfair advantage and the other is also an unfair advantage doesn't mean they are on the same level of unfair advantage. Things are not just black and white. But who knows, maybe my reading comprehension is not the best, probably because my parents didn't help me with my homework or read to me. I keep trying to bold it and I’m failing miserably, but the word “inappropriate” is less ambiguous than “unfair”. And inappropriate was definitely used the post I quoted earlier. |
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thatgolfb
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Post by thatgolfb on Mar 20, 2019 7:32:14 GMT -6
It's okay to benefit from your privilege, you can't help it. You can acknowledge it and I promise you won't have to give everything back. Of course. I can’t speak for everyone but I’m fairly certain no one thinks anything is going to be taken away by acknowledging our privilege. It keeps being said that we should acknowledge our privilege, which is all I see anyone doing, so I guess I’m just not sure what I’m missing here. I will say that I do wish I had been aware of my privilege earlier. I am not blaming my parents, necessarily. But I didn’t realize all the privilege I had until at least college, and I have regrets about that. |
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bazi
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Post by bazi on Mar 20, 2019 7:32:15 GMT -6
brux I think about that too. I volunteer with a local elementary school reading/tutoring program and have a monthly charitable donation to that program. They do great work and it’s a way for me to share the benefits my kids have (meaning my time, $ and educational background) with other kids whose circumstances are different. It’s not “equal” to the time I spend reading with my own kids though, you might be thinking of something more substantial.
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brux
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Post by brux on Mar 20, 2019 7:32:30 GMT -6
I do think about this privilege and unfair advantage thing a lot. I'm noodling on ways that I can make a contract with myself to share an equal amount of my time and money with DS and with students/a school/a student with fewer advantages. I feel strongly that if I'm spending time to help my own kid learn how to research and write a paper, I should find that same energy to help others in an equal amount. But I need to spend more time thinking through this contract I want because I don't want to jump into some pool of white savior tears. I agree with you, but I also see that as what GhoatMonket said. If I am helping my child at home they will not need the teacher's help as much and therefore give him/her the time to work with other students who may not have that home advantage. I have been known though when she is doing homework with the girl from her girl scouts if we get there early to help them both. It is a fine line In a world where teachers have plenty of time, talent, and energy to help all the kids who need help, I agree that I'm leaving more time for others simply by not demanding it for myself. but I don't think that's a realistic expectation of public school teachers. |
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 7:34:38 GMT -6
It's okay to benefit from your privilege, you can't help it. You can acknowledge it and I promise you won't have to give everything back. Again- where is anyone not? You literally have pages of people saying that they are acknowledging it and you keep coming back to this and telling us we need to do this. We have. We did. Multiple times. What more are you looking for? |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 7:35:20 GMT -6
Saying one is an unfair advantage and the other is also an unfair advantage doesn't mean they are on the same level of unfair advantage. Things are not just black and white. But who knows, maybe my reading comprehension is not the best, probably because my parents didn't help me with my homework or read to me. I Lee trying to bold it and I’m failing, but the word “inappropriate” is less ambiguous than “unfair”. And inappropriate was definitely used the post I quoted earlier. But inappropriate is still not the same as illegal. I can imagine that word feeling very negative, even if I am not feeling that myself. |
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brux
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Post by brux on Mar 20, 2019 7:36:20 GMT -6
brux I think about that too. I volunteer with a local elementary school reading/tutoring program and have a monthly charitable donation to that program. They do great work and it’s a way for me to share the benefits my kids have (meaning my time, $ and educational background) with other kids whose circumstances are different. It’s not “equal” to the time I spend with my own kids though, you might be thinking of something more substantial. I doubt I'll ever achieve "equal." I think doing something more than nothing while keeping an eye on a goal of "equal" is best case scenario. But yeah, I see requests for volunteers at my kid's school and they never get enough. And it makes me wonder if it's the same situation in neighborhoods that don't have the same parental resources. And then I spiral into making contracts with myself to pay for college application fees for whole classes of high school seniors. |
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Post by angelashly on Mar 20, 2019 7:37:10 GMT -6
I agree with you, but I also see that as what GhoatMonket said. If I am helping my child at home they will not need the teacher's help as much and therefore give him/her the time to work with other students who may not have that home advantage. I have been known though when she is doing homework with the girl from her girl scouts if we get there early to help them both. It is a fine line In a world where teachers have plenty of time, talent, and energy to help all the kids who need help, I agree that I'm leaving more time for others simply by not demanding it for myself. but I don't think that's a realistic expectation of public school teachers. Oh I agree |
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bazi
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Post by bazi on Mar 20, 2019 7:37:28 GMT -6
I’ve read the word privilege so many times it’s starting to look wrong. I keep wanting to add a “d”.
Someone proofread my posts.
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 7:38:38 GMT -6
I Lee trying to bold it and I’m failing, but the word “inappropriate” is less ambiguous than “unfair”. And inappropriate was definitely used the post I quoted earlier. But inappropriate is still not the same as illegal. I can imagine that word feeling very negative, even if I am not feeling that myself. But why is it acceptable for any other person to help? Why is it only inappropriate if it is a parent? The action needs to be what is looked at, not the person. Peers can do whole re-writes as well, yet peer help is deemed acceptable. A teacher may re-write it too, yet that is acceptable. The action of re-writing the paper is the problem, not who did it. |
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 7:39:30 GMT -6
I’ve read the word privilege so many times it’s starting to look wrong. I keep wanting to add a “d”. Someone proofread my posts. Thank you spell check. |
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Post by hardlyluck on Mar 20, 2019 7:42:27 GMT -6
I’ve read the word privilege so many times it’s starting to look wrong. I keep wanting to add a “d”. Someone proofread my posts. Thank you spell check. wait, is spell check inappropriate? My grandmother probably could’ve spent awhile telling my why it is. She never had calculators to cheat for her she’d have you know! |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 7:44:13 GMT -6
It's okay to benefit from your privilege, you can't help it. You can acknowledge it and I promise you won't have to give everything back. Again- where is anyone not? You literally have pages of people saying that they are acknowledging it and you keep coming back to this and telling us we need to do this. We have. We did. Multiple times. What more are you looking for? I am saying there is a wide range of privilege. Yes, everyone is acknowledging some but is less inclined to acknowledge others. Having parents that speak English is a privilege. Having college-educated parents is a privilege. Having parents that have the ability and time and emotional capacity to help with homework is a privilege. That doesn't mean you don't deserve your accomplishments. But here's your medal for acknowledging the select few privileges. |
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 7:45:24 GMT -6
wait, is spell check inappropriate? My grandmother probably could’ve spent awhile telling my why it is. She never had calculators to cheat for her she’d have you know! Remember the dark ages when you didn't have this in Microsoft Works, or worst had to use a typewriter? Or had to write it by hand? This is why we had proofreaders. |
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bazi
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Post by bazi on Mar 20, 2019 7:45:32 GMT -6
wait, is spell check inappropriate? My grandmother probably could’ve spent awhile telling my why it is. She never had calculators to cheat for her she’d have you know! I don’t know I’m posting from a Gutenberg printing press, v1. |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 7:46:14 GMT -6
I’ve read the word privilege so many times it’s starting to look wrong. I keep wanting to add a “d”. Someone proofread my posts. Please ask your parents to proofread and edit each post before submitting. |
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 7:47:28 GMT -6
Again- where is anyone not? You literally have pages of people saying that they are acknowledging it and you keep coming back to this and telling us we need to do this. We have. We did. Multiple times. What more are you looking for? I am saying there is a wide range of privilege. Yes, everyone is acknowledging some but is less inclined to acknowledge others. Having parents that speak English is a privilege. Having college-educated parents is a privilege. Having parents that have the ability and time and emotional capacity to help with homework is a privilege. That doesn't mean you don't deserve your accomplishments. But here's your medal for acknowledging the select few privileges. Yes, that's what I was looking for. |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 7:48:09 GMT -6
wait, is spell check inappropriate? My grandmother probably could’ve spent awhile telling my why it is. She never had calculators to cheat for her she’d have you know! I don’t know I’m posting from a Gutenberg printing press, v1. I admire your commitment to leveling the playing field. |
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Post by angelashly on Mar 20, 2019 7:48:32 GMT -6
Again- where is anyone not? You literally have pages of people saying that they are acknowledging it and you keep coming back to this and telling us we need to do this. We have. We did. Multiple times. What more are you looking for? I am saying there is a wide range of privilege. Yes, everyone is acknowledging some but is less inclined to acknowledge others. Having parents that speak English is a privilege. Having college-educated parents is a privilege. Having parents that have the ability and time and emotional capacity to help with homework is a privilege. That doesn't mean you don't deserve your accomplishments. But here's your medal for acknowledging the select few privileges. But I don't see anyone not acknowledging those privileges I will not turn my kid away if she wants me to proofread something just because others in her class may not have a parent who can I just wont. I do agree with brux that instead I would like to be able to help those who want the help and no one to give it to them. I don't know how to do that just yet, but it is something I would like. |
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bazi
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Post by bazi on Mar 20, 2019 7:48:43 GMT -6
I’ve read the word privilege so many times it’s starting to look wrong. I keep wanting to add a “d”. Someone proofread my posts. Please ask your parents to proofread and edit each post before submitting. They actually want to do a quarterly check in on HiH to see how my posting is going, where I excel and what my development goals are. Look for an Outlook appointment. |
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Post by angelashly on Mar 20, 2019 7:49:12 GMT -6
Please ask your parents to proofread and edit each post before submitting. They actually want to do a quarterly check in on HiH to see how my posting is going, where I excel and what my development goals are. Look for an Outlook appointment. I'll start keeping a post it then |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 7:50:45 GMT -6
Please ask your parents to proofread and edit each post before submitting. They actually want to do a quarterly check in on HiH to see how my posting is going, where I excel and what my development goals are. Look for an Outlook appointment. Oh good, I have lots to discuss with them. We shall put a committee together. And The Committee for sure accepts bribes. |
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Post by GhoatMonket on Mar 20, 2019 7:53:27 GMT -6
I am short wow that your parents proofread papers and homework. No one ever did that for me. My parents weren’t checked out, they made sure I did my homework, but they never checked it. I’m not saying other parents were wrong, (the opposite in fact, I think it’s great) just sharing my experience. Honestly, this is always going to be feel too personal and it’s hard to have a theoretical discussion. At the end of the day, no one wants to feel like they didn’t earn what they have and on the other side, it can make others feel bad that they didn’t get those things. To be clear, i have not read anything in this thread that makes me feel like our board does anything ‘wrong’ or unjust for their kids. It’s miles and miles away from this cheating scandal to me. They never looked at my daily homework. My mom couldn't have helped with most of it after grade school anyway. Major term papers (like 15+ pages), scholarship application, college application essays, award application essays- absolutely. |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 7:53:27 GMT -6
I am saying there is a wide range of privilege. Yes, everyone is acknowledging some but is less inclined to acknowledge others. Having parents that speak English is a privilege. Having college-educated parents is a privilege. Having parents that have the ability and time and emotional capacity to help with homework is a privilege. That doesn't mean you don't deserve your accomplishments. But here's your medal for acknowledging the select few privileges. But I don't see anyone not acknowledging those privileges I will not turn my kid away if she wants me to proofread something just because others in her class may not have a parent who can I just wont. I do agree with brux that instead I would like to be able to help those who want the help and no one to give it to them. I don't know how to do that just yet, but it is something I would like. I think there is a lot of semantics going on. Privilege, advantage, unfair advantage, and even favorable consequence, etc. Some see differences amongst them and others don't. |
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piratecat
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Post by piratecat on Mar 20, 2019 7:58:27 GMT -6
But inappropriate is still not the same as illegal. I can imagine that word feeling very negative, even if I am not feeling that myself. But why is it acceptable for any other person to help? Why is it only inappropriate if it is a parent? The action needs to be what is looked at, not the person. Peers can do whole re-writes as well, yet peer help is deemed acceptable. A teacher may re-write it too, yet that is acceptable. The action of re-writing the paper is the problem, not who did it. I personally didn't say whether it is inappropriate or acceptable. I think there is a difference between saying "having parents that can/will proofread" gives you an advantage and saying that it is wrong or that parents shouldn't do it. |
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Post by angelashly on Mar 20, 2019 7:59:04 GMT -6
But I don't see anyone not acknowledging those privileges I will not turn my kid away if she wants me to proofread something just because others in her class may not have a parent who can I just wont. I do agree with brux that instead I would like to be able to help those who want the help and no one to give it to them. I don't know how to do that just yet, but it is something I would like. I think there is a lot of semantics going on. Privilege, advantage, unfair advantage, and even favorable consequence, etc. Some see differences amongst them and others don't. But I don't see that people are I guess so I am missing something. So what are we supposed to be doing with our kid's education? No snark honestly I am really trying to see what I am missing in this discussion because clearly we are all not on the same page |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 8:01:45 GMT -6
You guys, I am seriously worried about this “new math”’stuff I keep hearing about. How am I supposed to “help” my kid learn it if I don’t even know what it is? At least reading is still the same, right? Right!?
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Post by angelashly on Mar 20, 2019 8:02:12 GMT -6
You guys, I am seriously worried about this “new math”’stuff I keep hearing about. How am I supposed to “help” my kid learn it if I don’t even know what it is? At least reading is still the same, right? Right!? I google a lot |
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