Help me parent

[Tlex]

Apr 13, 2021 17:23:51 GMT -6 Minerva said:

Apr 13, 2021 16:03:05 GMT -6 Yogurt said:

Fuck a clip chart. Just because I ended somewhere does not paint a picture of my whole day. And if it's public shaming....ooh boy do I hate that.

Yes, especially for a kid with ADHD or other developmental delays that affect executive functioning.

OP, if you think your DS may have ADHD, I would start pursuing a diagnosis now and meet with a child psych to discuss appropriate parenting approaches. Understanding his diagnoses should definitely inform how you dish out consequences for his behaviors. I’m going to try to say this nicely - if your child has ADHD, he has an executive functioning disability that very literally makes it difficult for him to avoid impulsive behaviors and follow directions. He needs extra support to develop his executive functioning skills. He may need meds to avoid making impulsive decisions. Frequent tangential punishments from you hours after the incident are likely to be counterproductive, leading to defiance and low self-esteem. One textbook symptom of ADHD is rejection sensitivity, meaning that people with ADHD often internalize rejection and criticism beyond what is typical in most people. It makes it doubly important that you choose your consequences with care when you are parenting a kid with ADHD.

Do you think your kid feels like you are on his team? He needs your support. He may need accommodations in school to help him succeed so that school is a positive place to learn. Punishing him for behaviors related to a disability without giving him the support he needs is not going to end well for anyone involved. That doesn’t mean no consequences, but it does mean appropriate consequences accompanied by additional support.

As someone with ADHD, this ^
The executive dysfunction, impulse control, rejection sensitive dysphoria, and low self esteem are all exactly on point. I would encourage finding a professional who specializes in ADHD/neurodiversity and I would actually suggest you go to sessions with them more so than your DS. Parenting kids with ADHD is a huge effort and requires a lot of tools and strategies. You will feel way more confident in yourself as a parent when all the “normal” things are replaced with strategies tailored to ADHD.

As a grown woman turning 33, if I didn’t take my meds, it’s entirely possible I’d impulsively colour on my desk at work while I was bored/daydreaming. It’s embarrassing to admit it but that’s what it is. I know better - I CARE - I don’t want to be a weird rude employee who defaces work property, but it could just kind of happen because it felt nice to colour with that crayon and my brain didn’t alert me to how bad an idea that was until the action had started.

[ktg]

So he has an IEP that includes working on socializing with his peers, but a classroom management system that ranks the students' behavior against each other?

I'd be clipping down his teacher. not really. I loathe this kind of classroom management, though.

I would, for starters, not add additional home punishment for school actions. I would be discussing natural consequences with his teacher (understanding that sometimes it is hard to implement because there's a classroom full of kids), and I would talk with him about what he might need to XYZ better - is there an action he can do to remind him to focus, or a cue the teacher could give him? If he does something "bad" like the crayons again, what will be the consequence, cleaning it up? No crayons for the rest of the day?

My philosophy is that kids need guidance and they need consequences that fit their actions so they can learn. Behavior is communication, so he's needing some help in this area, but neither a clip chart nor home punishments will help him tell you what he needs or what he's struggling with.

[cribs]

Apr 13, 2021 17:55:09 GMT -6 Tlex said:

Apr 13, 2021 17:23:51 GMT -6 Minerva said:

Yes, especially for a kid with ADHD or other developmental delays that affect executive functioning.

OP, if you think your DS may have ADHD, I would start pursuing a diagnosis now and meet with a child psych to discuss appropriate parenting approaches. Understanding his diagnoses should definitely inform how you dish out consequences for his behaviors. I’m going to try to say this nicely - if your child has ADHD, he has an executive functioning disability that very literally makes it difficult for him to avoid impulsive behaviors and follow directions. He needs extra support to develop his executive functioning skills. He may need meds to avoid making impulsive decisions. Frequent tangential punishments from you hours after the incident are likely to be counterproductive, leading to defiance and low self-esteem. One textbook symptom of ADHD is rejection sensitivity, meaning that people with ADHD often internalize rejection and criticism beyond what is typical in most people. It makes it doubly important that you choose your consequences with care when you are parenting a kid with ADHD.

Do you think your kid feels like you are on his team? He needs your support. He may need accommodations in school to help him succeed so that school is a positive place to learn. Punishing him for behaviors related to a disability without giving him the support he needs is not going to end well for anyone involved. That doesn’t mean no consequences, but it does mean appropriate consequences accompanied by additional support.

As someone with ADHD, this ^
The executive dysfunction, impulse control, rejection sensitive dysphoria, and low self esteem are all exactly on point. I would encourage finding a professional who specializes in ADHD/neurodiversity and I would actually suggest you go to sessions with them more so than your DS. Parenting kids with ADHD is a huge effort and requires a lot of tools and strategies. You will feel way more confident in yourself as a parent when all the “normal” things are replaced with strategies tailored to ADHD.

As a grown woman turning 33, if I didn’t take my meds, it’s entirely possible I’d impulsively colour on my desk at work while I was bored/daydreaming. It’s embarrassing to admit it but that’s what it is. I know better - I CARE - I don’t want to be a weird rude employee who defaces work property, but it could just kind of happen because it felt nice to colour with that crayon and my brain didn’t alert me to how bad an idea that was until the action had started.

[sunnysideup]

Here is how I handle coloring on desks in my K class. Because it happens fairly often 😬

First time- give cleaning supplies and have them clean up the coloring. Explain that coloring on a desk isn’t acceptable. We color on paper only. I make a point to say something like “everyone makes mistakes. It’s okay. It was cleanable and now you know. But now that we’ve talked about, if it happens again you won’t have your crayons (or markers or whatever they used) for X number of days”

Happens again- I follow through with the removal of whatever they used. Only let them have the needed supplies for the assignment. Move desk if necessary and tell them they will have sit closer to me if they can’t make better choices with supplies. I’ll need to see them to help them.

Honestly, at home punishment for the coloring probably won’t do much. Reinforcing or reminding what the CLASSROOM consequence will be for classroom behavior is enough.

My son has ADHD and he struggled last year with impulsivity and also had a lot of anxiety over things at school spilling over at home. He was having some seriously rough days. He’s now on medication and he’s doing much much better. I also had to really separate that the school can handle the school stuff and I need to focus on home stuff. I’m not a fan of clip charts (as a parent or teacher). I do a reflection sheet with students in my class who need one and it’s private and it’s only to think back over areas we can work harder at the next day. If you suspect ADHD I would try moving forward because you will be able to better tailor strategies that might help classroom behavior.

[lucylou]

I shouldn’t have written this right before witching hour. I’m reading the responses and will go back and respond in better detail but I’m hearing a few of the same things from many of you.
Normally I feel like I handle the clip down situation well. I always know about it before he gets home (from the teachers email). Usually it’s the first thing he tells me when he gets off the bus. I usually say “let’s get a snack and we’ll talk about it.” I give him a chance to tell me. I try to get to the root like “why didn’t you do the paper she asked you to?” Usually he can’t tell a reason, we talk about nobody’s perfect and you’ll try your best tomorrow, etc. The no tablet/tv started when he started saying the reason he was doing these things was that his brain felt “too full” or “too crazy.” So I respond with, “well too much tv and tablet isn’t good for our brains so if you’re having trouble at school, then we need to do something good for our brains like playing outside, puzzles, books etc.” But tbh he’s starting to become slightly addicted to tablet games so this soon became like a big deal punishment to him.

But the table thing. I am being intense saying “it’s ruined.” And my first thought was to have him clean it himself but I feel like that’s just a pain in the teachers ass to have to get cleaning supplies, which I don’t even think they’re allowed to have in the classroom. Plus DS said she tried wiping it off and it’s didn’t come off.
I’m like, are you allowed to do that at home? He said no. Then I’m like ok then what makes you think you could do that at school?
And anytime he gets in trouble at school he’s all “I don’t want to go back to school. The teacher is mean, etc.” And I know she’s not. And at this point it just feels like he’s taking no responsibility at all. To be clear, he loves school on the days he doesn’t get clipped down. The clipping down has happened probably 7 times all year. 3 of which have been in the last 2 weeks.

Side story- after I wrote my OP we went to DS2’s soccer practice. DS1 asked for a snack and I said no (he had already had 2 snacks right before leaving, there was only 10 minutes left and we were going home to immediately eat dinner which I knew he wouldn’t eat if he had a snack that close). And I explained this to him. I sit down, look behind me and he’s fished a bag of goldfish out of my diaper bag. I go to him and have to pry it out of his hands. I sit down and he throws a stick at me, hits me in the neck. I get that he’s had a hard couple of days but again, I can’t help feeling like a failure that I’ve been to easy on him and now he thinks he can do whatever the hell he wants. And of course, DS2 sees this and now he’s starting to act up.

As I’m reading your responses though, it’s becoming clear that I need to get some resources on dealing with an adhd kid. Him being my oldest is hard because I have nothing to compare him to. I never know what’s normal kid behavior, what’s special needs related, and what’s just unique to him.

[cribs]

Ignore my giant quote above. I was going to say I would totally start coloring something and not even notice I was doing it. It's gotten a lot better with age and meds but that's an ADD/ADHD thing

[sheilathetank]

7 times in a year doesn't sound like a lot to me. But it sounds like something happened in the last two weeks. Did he have a change at school? New student, new schedule, new teacher? Has your schedule changed now that things are "opening back up"? Was he hybrid and now fully back in school? I would get to the bottom of what changed in his life.

As a child with ADHD who was told that if I didn't watch so much TV I wouldn't be the way I am, I don't think your reasoning behind taking the tablet away is appropriate when he says he can't focus.

For the stick thing, I would remove him the situation until he can calm down. I know you are at DS2 soccer practice but could you sit with him in the car? Then have a talk about it. And yeah I would take the tablet/TV away because you hit me with a stick. But I wouldn't say your behavior is a result of your tablet use.

Also earlier you mentioned meltdowns when saying no. At the direction of her teachers and therapist we remove her to a safe area. Hand her a calm down object such as a glitter wand or squeeze ball and let her scream/cry it out. Overtime since we don't feed into it, these instances have decreased in intensity and duration.

[Yogurt]

Has anyone read Parenting with Love and Logic?

The teaching one really opened my eyes regarding how to respond to challenging behavior.

[emma]

I’ve never heard of clip charts until now but wow I already hate them. My kid would honestly be devastated by being clipped down and I could see it happening often since he struggles with self registration, he’s end up hating school. Anyway, I try not to punish in school incidents. We talk about the behaviour and what lead to it, why it wasn’t appropriate, and let’s try again tomorrow. I also notice a decline in his behaviour when the tablet or switch are involved so they are limited to weekends only

[lifesaverz]

Re: the acting out at home & on outings. When we've had rough patches of behavior
& defiance from my now 7 year old, I usually sit her down & try to ask her what is really wrong, why is she acting like this, is there something else she's upset about? Despite being young she has still had good insights at times with a little bit of prompting like this. I then usually transition to discussing focusing on being a "team", & emphasize things like we need to work together so that we have a good day together, & what can she do to help with that. Then I try to remember to reference the "team" often, like before leaving the house, or when we're cleaning, "let's be a good team guys!", & use high fives & things like that. My kids respond well to that kind of stuff, plus it sends a positive message & makes them more willing to work with me.

I agree with others that 7 days of clipping down doesn't sound bad to me. Nobody is perfect. And I also agree with PP that if you take away tablet time I wouldn't make it related to his description of "why" he did what he did at school. I honestly feel that's just him trying to describe it, & his brain feeling that way is valid. If you want to make no tablet time a consequence for certain things I would just do that but keep it simple, like X behavior means no tablet time, or better yet make tablet time a reward for good behavior because it's a privilege.

[jmski]

Losing tech for the night sounds about right but at some point you have to let things that happen at school stop impacting time at home. He has to have something to look forward to and if he acts up at home you have to still have some consequences to give.

[Pistol]

Apr 13, 2021 16:42:57 GMT -6 sheilathetank said:

Apr 13, 2021 15:55:24 GMT -6 lucylou said:

That would help- every kid in class has a clip chart. They all start the day on green and there are 2 colors above and below that they can get clipped up, for good behavior, and down for bad. It is fluid throughout the day and then they color in a take home paper so the parent knows what they finished the day on. When he gets clipped down, I’ve always gotten an email from the teacher as well.
The other behaviors have been like, not following directions. Like, she tells him to do one work page before another, she leaves his side, comes back and he’s working on a different one. She’s prompts again, repeat.
In cases like that, I’ve questioned that maybe he didn’t understand how to do the sheet he was supposed to do he goes with what he knows/feels comfortable with. Now I’m not so sure.

This seems like an awful system that sets someone with any sort of behavioral issue up for failure. And if the teacher is using it and he is still displaying the behavior than obviously it's not working.

I would roll my eyes with the whole works on a different worksheet that was assigned thing. So. He's doing the work at least who cares what order it is in? If it's a problem then don't give him multiple sheets at a time? 🤷‍♀️

I don't punish for school stuff and let her teacher handle it at that moment. Punishing after the fact does nothing but create more problems at home. What does the teacher suggest other than a behavior chart that doesn't work?

When my kids were in school, they actually asked that we not punish at home for things that happen at school because they handle school stuff when it happens and at that age (k4-1st grade) they felt immediate consequences were far more effective than parents dealing with it at home after the fact. I did talk to him about what went wrong and help him come up with ideas on how to do better next time but unless it was something major we did not punish at home.

[Bluebird]

I met with a child psychologist a few months ago for some struggles my DS was having, and she encouraged me to avoid “why” questions and ask “what” and “how.”

So when my kid laments that he’s stupid and the worst kid ever or acts out badly, I’ve stopped asking him why he did that or why he thinks that. I ask him what happened to make him feel angry/sad/etc. or how might be a different way to respond in that situation that wouldn’t result in getting in trouble?

It’s helped me change the approach and get more of a 2-sided conversation with my kid when he struggles, so I just wanted to share.

Try to give yourself a little grace when you can. This shit is really hard, and you’re doing better than you think.

[sweptaway]

I know this isn't the point and OP has already gotten really good advice so.... I can't imagine the teacher emailing for all these things. These are non issues to me. Keep it to yourself, lady.

[clucky]

Having grown up with a brother with ADHD & hyperactivity, I’m trying to remember some things my parents did.

The one thing that always sticks in my mind first, is that removal of recess is NEVER a punishment and it is always good to be written into the plan. Not that it is happening, but this is a hill for me, so I have to mention it.

The other is that sometimes a specific teacher may just not be the right one to teach how your child learns - though I’m pretty sure some things my mother was told by teachers in the 80s wouldn’t fly at all today. The frustration at a K student for using the wrong paper, but continuing to give them multiple pages to manage is something. Sure, saves steps, but if a student is having a hard time breaking down tasks and following the VERBALIZED steps is a bone for teacher, teacher needs to adjust.

If teacher insists on using that chart, his needs to be reset every 30 minutes or subject/lesson. He needs to have reason to care ALL DAY. He needs to be taught that mistakes don’t rule your day. Once he makes a predetermined set of days at 30 min, adjust it to every hour, and so on. Put it in his IEP/504. But fuck that chart and make her hate it too.

Home and you need to be a reset/safe space. Maybe instead of having him recap the wrong doings of the day, ask his favorite parts of the day. Do not use removal of those things as punishment.

We also have thinking time, not time out. It may not necessarily work in all instances, but having the same space for time alone can be helpful. It is also a way to be consistent with both boys. It is expected and consistent. M Ours is a step just off the main room, they may choose to go to their bed and read a book or lay down. We then briefly discuss why they were there and anything they would like to say. Brief sticks, harping can lose the point (which I’m probably doing now 😬).

And the never ending eating is both amazing and mind boggling. Solidarity on that, I have no answers, but feed and have water available.

[adelbert]

You've gotten great advice from everyone. I just wanted to suggest a book I recently read and loved. It made me feel so much better about parenting a child with ADHD (my oldest two have it and probably my youngest as well but he's too young to be tested right now).

It's called, "Superparenting for ADD: An Innovative Approach to Raising Your Distracted Child" by Edward M. Hallowell and Peter S. Jensen

It's got helpful practical advice but also a really kind and loving message about appreciating children with ADHD. I highly recommend it.

www.amazon.com/Superparenting-ADD-Innovative-Approach-Distracted/dp/0345497775/

[sweptaway]

Apr 13, 2021 15:11:11 GMT -6 pobre said:

I’ve found the very well website has some really good resources on how to phrase things so they don’t trigger meltdowns. Let me see if I can find it. They also have great stuff on parenting defiant kids, kids with ADHD, etc.

If you can be more specific I might have more advice.

Do you have a positive reinforcement or reward system in place?

Could you share that link if you have it?

[regal]

This is a teacher problem, not a parent problem. Talk about his day every night and have him tell you something he's proud of and something he is going to do better. Kids are impulsive, they do silly things, the issues you mention above suggest he may need a little more supervision.

Clip charts are the worst and if you can get it on his plan that it should not be used with him, I would do that. That amount of "clip downs" would not be alarming to me at all. No one is allowed to have a bad day? My neurotypical 4yo cut her clothing with scissors three days in a row at school, we did time outs at home when I saw it at home, I told the teachers what she was doing, she did it again. It was a school problem so I "asked" the teachers if there was anything they could do in class to assist. Basically put the ball in their court, my daughter is no longer permitted scissors to her table unless the task involves them and then she is directly supervised.

[apk4]

lucylou, I didn't want to read and not comment. I think you've gotten great advice. I will like use some of it for my kiddo too.

[peachtree]

I will say this sounds so much like my son at 6 when he was in first grade last year. He doesn't have the other issues you mentioned I suspect some ADHD issues but his school social worker seemed to think that was not the case.

Second grade has been so much better, he simply has teachers that are a better fit for him. I tried to remind him every day to do his best to listen and follow directions. WE had lots of talks about impulse control which can be a struggle still at times. I realized the little red cards coming home where way more upsetting to me then they were to him. And like someone said above it was disheartening to think that maybe one issue was ruining his whole day. The teacher's punishment was to make him stay in during recess. Which was absolutely something I disagreed with. He need to be physically moving his body to get that energy out.

Long story short I realized that finding the right teacher for him is super important, we switched schools for an unrelated reason and this new staff has been amazing. They make sure he gets paired with the teachers that can work with his personality.

[pobre]

Apr 14, 2021 6:46:54 GMT -6 sweptaway said:

Apr 13, 2021 15:11:11 GMT -6 pobre said:

I’ve found the very well website has some really good resources on how to phrase things so they don’t trigger meltdowns. Let me see if I can find it. They also have great stuff on parenting defiant kids, kids with ADHD, etc.

If you can be more specific I might have more advice.

Do you have a positive reinforcement or reward system in place?

Could you share that link if you have it?

I started here and  spiraled into other articles. 

www.verywellfamily.com/ways-to-deal-with-disrespectful-children-1094948

Grandma's rule of discipline helped me a ton when DS was younger and I still use it quite a bit.


www.verywellfamily.com/how-to-avoid-power-struggles-with-children-1094751

Offering choices helped him to avoid meltdowns also.

[pobre]

My kid is 8 and uses a reward chart in his classroom. It is broken up into 3 goals: raise hand to speak, stay facing forward, and finish work on time. Then, his day is broken up into periods: morning meeting, science, math, reading, walk to learn (no idea what this is lol), and writing. He can get a smiley face for each goal and period for a total of 18.

His goal started at 9 smiley faces and has slowly incremented up to 15. If he meets his goal he gets a small prize, sometimes it's from the treasure box, sometimes it's 5 min with his favorite teacher. I also gave him a reward at home that if he gets 18/18 he gets a new comic (cheap one).

Just sharing in case your teacher would be willing to do something similar. He has had similar reward charts pre-pandemic.

[regal]

Apr 14, 2021 10:01:29 GMT -6 pobre said:

My kid is 8 and uses a reward chart in his classroom. It is broken up into 3 goals: raise hand to speak, stay facing forward, and finish work on time. Then, his day is broken up into periods: morning meeting, science, math, reading, walk to learn (no idea what this is lol), and writing. He can get a smiley face for each goal and period for a total of 18.

His goal started at 9 smiley faces and has slowly incremented up to 15. If he meets his goal he gets a small prize, sometimes it's from the treasure box, sometimes it's 5 min with his favorite teacher. I also gave him a reward at home that if he gets 18/18 he gets a new comic (cheap one).

Just sharing in case your teacher would be willing to do something similar. He has had similar reward charts pre-pandemic.

This is a much more appropriate method for a young child.