jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 21, 2021 10:59:48 GMT -6
I’m both nervous and excited that H and I are exploring a temporary (1-2 years) relocation outside of the US. This is purely a bucket list item, nothing to do with family or work. We have just always wanted to live abroad and feel we want to do this before the window closes for practicality. We are early in the planning stages and our current timeframe is to move in 1.5 years (summer 2022). We are setting our sights on Costa Rica but have not completely committed there yet. Obviously so much to do and plan which is why we are giving ourselves a nice long runway.
I’m curious to hear what your advice is for early planning. We know we need to cover the basics - housing, jobs, school, language (H is fluent, DS and I are not). But what is it that people often overlook or under plan? How can we prepare ourselves for this change? What are the cons that we haven’t thought of? What do you wish you would have known before moving? I’m open to any and all thoughts.
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hawkward
Global Moderator
Loss, Infertility
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Post by hawkward on Jan 21, 2021 11:09:13 GMT -6
We lived overseas for four years. I loved it. Something silly I hadn’t thought about before going was researching products for the basics, like what is their version of Tylenol or Clorox or whatever. It would have been nice to know have a cursory knowledge before the first time I went shopping because it took sooo long to read labels, etc.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 21, 2021 11:18:38 GMT -6
Also it should be noted that I can only move places where I can fly my 12 lb dogs in the cabin of the airplane and, ideally, have a short or no quarantine period. They are old and I can’t stress them too much.
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Post by blurnette989 on Jan 21, 2021 11:37:49 GMT -6
First consider the language expat as colonialist. It's offends lots of people. You are immigrants, even if temporarily.
Next taxes- as a US citizen you get to continue filing US taxes no matter where ypuluve. You need to read the joint tax treaties to see what is or isn't covered when you become a tax resident of another country. It is different in every country so I can't guarantee what will/won't be covered. An example is your US income if y'all are still working taxable in your new country? When this becomes relevant ask me about using foreign tax credit vs foreign income exemption.
Can you still put money in 401k without getting taxed on the proceeds in your new country?
Do you take any medications that might not be available in your new country. For example a lot of people don't know that adderall is illegal in other countries and just not available (legally).
Do you need pet passports for your pups?
How soon can I visit and why isn't Portugal on your list? Lol
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emma
Ruby
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Post by emma on Jan 21, 2021 11:47:39 GMT -6
be prepared to be hit with waves of emotion over silly little things, and i mean really silly little things that will have you almost in tears, like the new countries equivalent of glad wrap is different and isn't as sticky and won't stay on your bowl <-- that's very specific and may have actually happened.
It's not really something you can prepare for but be prepared to be homesick and experience culture shock, even when you love the new place and you are happy and excited to be there it will probably hit you at some point. But try not to dwell on it and give in too early. Try to embrace the differences and adapt
On a more practical side, take an exploratory trip and rent an AirBNB in a neighbourhood you'd think of living in. Go proper grocery shopping to get an idea of product availability and weekly shopping costs check out cars and get insurance quotes find out if doctors offices are taking new patients or if there are wait lists. Do you qualify for health care right away or do you need expat coverage for a time period find out if your DS qualify for free school while on a temp visa or do you have to pay Can you open an expat bank account does your credit history transfer to Costa Rica Get shipping quotes
sorry that was a lot.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 21, 2021 11:55:29 GMT -6
First consider the language expat as colonialist. It's offends lots of people. You are immigrants, even if temporarily. Next taxes- as a US citizen you get to continue filing US taxes no matter where ypuluve. You need to read the joint tax treaties to see what is or isn't covered when you become a tax resident of another country. It is different in every country so I can't guarantee what will/won't be covered. An example is your US income if y'all are still working taxable in your new country? When this becomes relevant ask me about using foreign tax credit vs foreign income exemption. Can you still put money in 401k without getting taxed on the proceeds in your new country? Do you take any medications that might not be available in your new country. For example a lot of people don't know that adderall is illegal in other countries and just not available (legally). Do you need pet passports for your pups? How soon can I visit and why isn't Portugal on your list? Lol Thank you for the note on expat. I will update my thread title. That makes sense. I added Portugal to the list but H is hesitant since we’ve never been.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 21, 2021 11:56:54 GMT -6
be prepared to be hit with waves of emotion over silly little things, and i mean really silly little things that will have you almost in tears, like the new countries equivalent of glad wrap is different and isn't as sticky and won't stay on your bowl <-- that's very specific and may have actually happened. It's not really something you can prepare for but be prepared to be homesick and experience culture shock, even when you love the new place and you are happy and excited to be there it will probably hit you at some point. But try not to dwell on it and give in too early. Try to embrace the differences and adapt On a more practical side, take an exploratory trip and rent an AirBNB in a neighbourhood you'd think of living in. Go proper grocery shopping to get an idea of product availability and weekly shopping costs check out cars and get insurance quotes find out if doctors offices are taking new patients or if there are wait lists. Do you qualify for health care right away or do you need expat coverage for a time period find out if your DS qualify for free school while on a temp visa or do you have to pay Can you open an expat bank account does your credit history transfer to Costa Rica Get shipping quotes sorry that was a lot. I totally get you on the first point. I had culture shock when I moved across the country and some days felt like I was in a different country. I know I cried over not being able to find proper enchilada sauce in the regular grocery store or a ripe avocado. But I survived.
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byjove
Ruby
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Post by byjove on Jan 21, 2021 12:09:37 GMT -6
If it's helpful, we have some close friends that lived in Costa Rica for several years (he was able to work remotely in the US). They came back when their first child was about a year old. I would be happy to put you in touch. I think they generally loved it.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 21, 2021 12:11:56 GMT -6
If it's helpful, we have some close friends that lived in Costa Rica for several years (he was able to work remotely in the US). The came back when they had their first child was about a year old. I would be happy to put you in touch. I think they generally loved it. Yes! I’ll ping you when we firm up our choice, but this would be great. The tentative plane is to continue our current work remotely. Totally possible for H, but needs more work on my end...
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 21, 2021 12:15:32 GMT -6
Thanks for all the tips so far. This is great.
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Post by blurnette989 on Jan 21, 2021 13:26:09 GMT -6
If it's helpful, we have some close friends that lived in Costa Rica for several years (he was able to work remotely in the US). The came back when they had their first child was about a year old. I would be happy to put you in touch. I think they generally loved it. Yes! I’ll ping you when we firm up our choice, but this would be great. The tentative plane is to continue our current work remotely. Totally possible for H, but needs more work on my end... Also remember that you can live on much less money in a place like costa rica. Even Portugal. We support a family of five comfortably on one salary. And not even California money.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 21, 2021 13:34:46 GMT -6
Yes! I’ll ping you when we firm up our choice, but this would be great. The tentative plane is to continue our current work remotely. Totally possible for H, but needs more work on my end... Also remember that you can live on much less money in a place like costa rica. Even Portugal. We support a family of five comfortably on one salary. And not even California money. I’m very much thinking of taking a break from work - perhaps to do a Masters degree program remotely. H is side eyeing that a bit but...idc.
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cubed
Silver
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Post by cubed on Jan 21, 2021 15:18:12 GMT -6
Long post! TL;DR: Costa Rica is beautiful, but make sure you do a lot of research about utilities, schools/doctors and possibly sharing your home with bugs and lizards.
Ex-H has been living in Costa Rica full time for the past two years, and he was there for extended trips on and off for the previous six years. I went down there to visit for a couple weeks towards the end of our marriage (he was trying to convince me to move down there with our boys) and it was very beautiful. He lives about an hour outside San Jose, and it's much more of a "city" than the lush, tropical tourist areas you may think of when thinking of CR.
The CoL was significantly less (we're in Chicago area). He has a one bedroom apartment with utilities and internet for about $450/month. I did notice that in all the homes we visited while I was there, all the floors were tile and everyone had bug issues (e.g, ants, other tropical but not harmful bugs). Maybe it was just the group we were hanging with but the idea was that you just dealt with the bugs as a way of life. Also lots of lizards running around. And we walked most places. I didn't encounter a lot of people with cars; most had bicycles or motorbikes.
The big saying in CR is "pura vida" and everything is a much more laid back atmosphere. In restaurants, trying to get a cab, etc...people are more "we'll get there when we get there." That took a little adjusting to, especially when needing to do things with the kiddos.
I echo PP's sentiments, especially about the grocery store and the doctors. The internet infrastructure is not super stable where he is living, so definitely check out the stability of utilities in areas you're interested in living. Also, the address system was very odd. Like I wanted to call for a cab but instead of a street address, I had to tell the driver landmarks (e.g., the apartment complex with the big red rock at the front gate). Ex-H said that's common.
Mail delivery is also an issue my ex-H has experienced. Some packages never arrive, some arrive with half the items missing, etc... He's never had an issue with crime that I'm aware of, and said there is a large group of American and British immigrants in his area. So there was a sense of community and ex-H loves the weather, even during the rainy season. And I do not believe they observe DST so the island is always in Central Time.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 21, 2021 15:39:14 GMT -6
Ahhh cubed thank you!!! Those are all wonderful considerations to keep in mind. My preliminary research has mentioned the bugs / lizards a lot. I’m curious how we would do with that as a family. H and I are very laid back in that regard but DS is definitely not. But I do want to see my dogs confront a lizard. I’m a bit worried about internet especially for H to work.
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adelbert
Amethyst
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Post by adelbert on Jan 21, 2021 15:54:58 GMT -6
Personally I wouldn't move somewhere I couldn't speak the language. Then the temptation becomes pretty high to spend most of your time with other English speakers and lots of people find it very hard to fit in an intensive language course once they arrive if they have children. So getting to a basic/medium level before the move would be important to me.
One nice thing about living abroad is being able to access different countries when traveling. So if you move anywhere in Europe it will be incredibly easy to travel to almost any other European country for relatively little money (depending on when you go, where you go, how you go). This is obviously a huge plus.
If you're attempting to work from home then I would make sure you move someplace with a good infrastructure. If your power goes out once a week and your internet can't handle two people using it, you're basically setting yourself up for failure even if you want to take a more relaxed approach.
I would try to find an area/country that you really admire or appreciate or want to learn more about as having passion for the place you live in really helps in the initial weeks and months that can be challenging.
I think so many people are really happy when they take that leap though. There's a facebook group, two fat expats that has a pretty amazing community and if you asked your question there you would get a lot of advice and support.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 21, 2021 17:05:30 GMT -6
adelbert thanks for the thoughts - super helpful. The plan would be to spend the next 1.5 years increasing language fluency. H is fine and will just need to learn local jargon. He’s super good at languages. I took four years of Spanish and am definitely not beginner - I can understand some of what I hear and a lot of what I read, I just have trouble with speaking. I blame the fact that I took a year of Italian in college and it jumbled my brain. So I need a long runway to get closer to fluent before moving. We would also work with DS over the next 1.5 years too and hopefully we can get him comfortable as well. I like what you said about picking a place we are passionate about. I think for us that’s CR. But I think there is part of us that want to make an exhaustive list of places we could want to live...but maybe that’s dumb and we should just go where we have the passion to go assuming it’s feasible.
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cubed
Silver
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Post by cubed on Jan 21, 2021 17:52:35 GMT -6
Ahhh cubed thank you!!! Those are all wonderful considerations to keep in mind. My preliminary research has mentioned the bugs / lizards a lot. I’m curious how we would do with that as a family. H and I are very laid back in that regard but DS is definitely not. But I do want to see my dogs confront a lizard. I’m a bit worried about internet especially for H to work. I figure the utilities are better if you're closer to San Jose or the tourist areas, but those areas are probably more expensive as well. And I don't know how it works with visas but ex-H has to leave CR every 90 days for at least 48 hours. He's not working out there so I think he may just be on a tourist visa, but I'm not sure. So definitely check out the visa situation along with all the tax stuff that was mentioned. I loved the lizards but I didn't have to live with them!😂 It really is a beautiful place.
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Minerva
Ruby
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Post by Minerva on Jan 21, 2021 17:56:26 GMT -6
adelbert thanks for the thoughts - super helpful. The plan would be to spend the next 1.5 years increasing language fluency. H is fine and will just need to learn local jargon. He’s super good at languages. I took four years of Spanish and am definitely not beginner - I can understand some of what I hear and a lot of what I read, I just have trouble with speaking. I blame the fact that I took a year of Italian in college and it jumbled my brain. So I need a long runway to get closer to fluent before moving. We would also work with DS over the next 1.5 years too and hopefully we can get him comfortable as well. I like what you said about picking a place we are passionate about. I think for us that’s CR. But I think there is part of us that want to make an exhaustive list of places we could want to live...but maybe that’s dumb and we should just go where we have the passion to go assuming it’s feasible. Would you want to live in an urban part of CR or a rural area? I’ve done both in other tropical countries and found that the challenges are really different.
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Minerva
Ruby
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Post by Minerva on Jan 21, 2021 17:58:34 GMT -6
I can tell you all about living with bugs and lizards from living in Panama, Mexico, Australia, and Moorea. Insects will be an issue anywhere tropical, especially if your home is set up with a lot of open air spaces (open air kitchens especially). But it’s totally manageable. You keep all your food in the fridge or in sealed containers and use lots of mosquito netting, bug spray, and protective clothing. You always check your shoes before putting them on. And you get used to having the occasional lizard or frog sneak into your house and occasionally drop from the ceiling onto your shoulder or jump onto your back while you are showering...true story.
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richard
Emerald
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Post by richard on Jan 21, 2021 18:02:38 GMT -6
jaygee , is there any way for you to do a sabbatical at work first and go for like 1-2 months? To see if it's for you before you go down the road of visas/taxes/job change/health care? I'm a cautious type and that's what I think I'd try to do before jumping in for a year or two. I know that's not always an option but thought maybe for your circumstance it could be. Anyway, I'm going to live vicariously through you as I loved Costa Rica when I visited.
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wedding
Emerald
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Post by wedding on Jan 21, 2021 18:26:34 GMT -6
I would also look into veterinary care there. I don’t recall how old your dogs are but if they are older it would be good to know that similar medications and testing are available. They also may have different vaccine requirements to get in than they do in everyday practice. For instance some countries require the dog be vaccinated for leptospirosis prior to coming but don’t have to keep it up as a yearly vaccine. Here’s the link to the USDA website to see requirements in case you haven’t checked www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/pet-travel/by-country/pettravel-costa-ricaAny other knowledge I have is from 90 Day Fiancé so I’ll refrain from commenting!
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Peekaru
Sapphire
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Post by Peekaru on Jan 21, 2021 18:45:07 GMT -6
Creeping: we have tentatively set out sights on Germany for 2024
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origami
Amethyst
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Post by origami on Jan 21, 2021 19:11:34 GMT -6
When I lived abroad it was in the Peace Corps (In the DR not CR) so grain of salt that it's not at all like living and working and raising a kid, but the things that pop out that I didn't think about until I was confronted with them:
1. Tampons. Almost impossible to find in some Latin American countries. Not to say fully impossible, but I ended up having my sister send me some. 2. Humid countries can sometimes lend to yeast infections if you're prone to them at all. That said, OTC pharmacies were way better than here in my experience. 3. I slept under a mosquito net every night and so the bugs and lizards weren't really an issue. 4. If you live outside a city and don't have your own transportation, figure out the main modes of transportation and find your comfort level--for example, my town only had motorcycles available to travel to the next biggest town where we could catch a minibus. 5. And I'll echo the internet/electricity/cellular infrastructure. It might be fine to work on, or it might not, but if your H will be working remotely for an American company that expects American output, you'll want to know well in advance.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 21, 2021 19:34:40 GMT -6
adelbert thanks for the thoughts - super helpful. The plan would be to spend the next 1.5 years increasing language fluency. H is fine and will just need to learn local jargon. He’s super good at languages. I took four years of Spanish and am definitely not beginner - I can understand some of what I hear and a lot of what I read, I just have trouble with speaking. I blame the fact that I took a year of Italian in college and it jumbled my brain. So I need a long runway to get closer to fluent before moving. We would also work with DS over the next 1.5 years too and hopefully we can get him comfortable as well. I like what you said about picking a place we are passionate about. I think for us that’s CR. But I think there is part of us that want to make an exhaustive list of places we could want to live...but maybe that’s dumb and we should just go where we have the passion to go assuming it’s feasible. Would you want to live in an urban part of CR or a rural area? I’ve done both in other tropical countries and found that the challenges are really different. We have not decided yet but we would likely be looking at something on the pacific side. Tamarindo/Guancastle is where I have my sights on, but maybe something south. So beach town most likely.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 21, 2021 19:35:47 GMT -6
I would also look into veterinary care there. I don’t recall how old your dogs are but if they are older it would be good to know that similar medications and testing are available. They also may have different vaccine requirements to get in than they do in everyday practice. For instance some countries require the dog be vaccinated for leptospirosis prior to coming but don’t have to keep it up as a yearly vaccine. Here’s the link to the USDA website to see requirements in case you haven’t checked www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/pet-travel/by-country/pettravel-costa-ricaAny other knowledge I have is from 90 Day Fiancé so I’ll refrain from commenting! My dogs are old - 14. In good health but not sure if she will be here when we move. And approx 11ish. That one is probably going to live forever.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 21, 2021 19:40:58 GMT -6
jaygee , is there any way for you to do a sabbatical at work first and go for like 1-2 months? To see if it's for you before you go down the road of visas/taxes/job change/health care? I'm a cautious type and that's what I think I'd try to do before jumping in for a year or two. I know that's not always an option but thought maybe for your circumstance it could be. Anyway, I'm going to live vicariously through you as I loved Costa Rica when I visited. Unfortunately I don’t think I could with my current job. Which is a bummer. I’m not too worried about us wanting to come back after just a month or 2. I kind of have a nomad personality and can feel at home a lot of places. I get homesick of course but not so overwhelming. Plus I feel like a year goes really fast (as long as the year is not 2020).
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Minerva
Ruby
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Post by Minerva on Jan 21, 2021 19:59:00 GMT -6
Would you want to live in an urban part of CR or a rural area? I’ve done both in other tropical countries and found that the challenges are really different. We have not decided yet but we would likely be looking at something on the pacific side. Tamarindo/Guancastle is where I have my sights on, but maybe something south. So beach town most likely. I’ve never lived in CR, but I lived in rural beachy areas in Mexico and French Polynesia. It’s definitely a different lifestyle, but one I’d sign up for again in a heartbeat. In rural parts of Mexico and Moorea, I didn’t have potable water at my house. Both places had services that would deliver 5 gallon water jugs weekly, but you had to figure out who to call to set it up. Waterborne disease was a real concern, so I didn’t even brush teeth with tap water. In Australia, we had composting toilets, while in Mexico we couldn’t flush tp and used gray water to flush in general. Neither are a big deal, but it was an adjustment. Expect septic weirdness if you aren’t in a major city. And tampons weren’t available in my Mexican town. Grocery shopping was an expedition - you could pick up eggs/milk/chicken/fish/baked goods at the local convenience store and markets, but had to drive an hour plus to urban areas to get to what Americans would consider a regular smallish grocery store. Planning out and stocking up on food becomes a thing. Driving can be an adventure with washed out roads during certain seasons and tropical weather plus proximity to the ocean takes a major toll on vehicles. I really appreciated access to 4 wheel drive vehicles through my work in both towns to access good beaches and hikes. I found it much easier to get to know people when I lived in more rural areas than in international cities. You do have to create a network quickly to figure out how to get things done. Figuring out things like the timing of informal markets, how to get access to and use the dump, how to use local public transportation, who bakes and sells cakes/tortillas/empanadas from their kitchen, etc... is key to having a good experience. I’d recommend a longer reconnaissance trip to try to figure out where you would want to live and make some connections ahead of time.
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jaidit
Ruby
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Post by jaidit on Jan 22, 2021 0:50:59 GMT -6
👋
I moved to France almost 10 years ago now. Time flies. My biggest advice is to find local friends and get genuinely involved with your town. You won’t get a true experience if you just hang out in expat groups. I didn’t know French before moving, but as my H speaks it we decided to just go cold turkey and spoke only French with each other for 6 months. Maybe that’s something you and your H can start at home now?
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adelbert
Amethyst
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Post by adelbert on Jan 22, 2021 1:19:32 GMT -6
Creeping: we have tentatively set out sights on Germany for 2024 I've been here for 17 years now (so crazy how quickly time can fly by) and I still love it here. It's not perfect but it's a great place to live and raise children. If you ever have any questions let me know.
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adelbert
Amethyst
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Post by adelbert on Jan 22, 2021 1:21:16 GMT -6
adelbert thanks for the thoughts - super helpful. The plan would be to spend the next 1.5 years increasing language fluency. H is fine and will just need to learn local jargon. He’s super good at languages. I took four years of Spanish and am definitely not beginner - I can understand some of what I hear and a lot of what I read, I just have trouble with speaking. I blame the fact that I took a year of Italian in college and it jumbled my brain. So I need a long runway to get closer to fluent before moving. We would also work with DS over the next 1.5 years too and hopefully we can get him comfortable as well. I like what you said about picking a place we are passionate about. I think for us that’s CR. But I think there is part of us that want to make an exhaustive list of places we could want to live...but maybe that’s dumb and we should just go where we have the passion to go assuming it’s feasible. I also wouldn't worry about DS being fluent at all, kids normally pick up the language quickly enough. Especially if they aren't so old that they have the stress of dealing with exams and schools issues that show up in middle and high school.
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