Fearsy
Platinum
Posts: 1,834 Likes: 7,311
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Post by Fearsy on Sept 20, 2020 7:39:56 GMT -6
Also I strongly disagree that this place is anything like Facebook. FB’s algorithms and notifications are customized and change constantly to keep you coming back. Like what they said about collecting your data, learning who you are, and then filtering content based on that. While this place has ads, the other stuff like notifications stay the same. It doesn’t over notify you or change the content based on the length of time and how you spend your time here. I am not in disagreement that it’s a different experience in many ways but I do want to push back a bit about how our data is being collected here - if you’re not paying for it, you are the product is 100% true. Even if you’re just lurking and using a burner email account you are providing data and they can build a pretty good guess at who you “are” and what you will like. Just because they aren’t doing a good job with that data/targeted ads/notifications now doesn’t mean they won’t get there, or aren’t selling that info. And I think we’re all ok with that on some level, especially with the amount of anonymity we can have here. I can definitely agree with you there. I guess it just feels way less calculated and very different here vs FB for me.
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emma
Ruby
Posts: 18,809 Likes: 86,446
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Post by emma on Sept 20, 2020 7:44:09 GMT -6
Excellent timing, I also watched The Social Dilemma yesterday and have been turning things over ever since. Nothing they said was new to me, I worked in social media for 6 years but to see it all laid out got me thinking again. The continued lack of regulation on SM is something concerning, it’s not new anymore and there’s so much evidence around the psychological damage it does and the polarization but those in control refuse to regulate it because it generates so much money.
I deleted my twitter account years ago and haven’t been on my Facebook feed in probably as long but use the chat app to talk with a few people. The only true SM I still have is IG and i make a conscious effort to not spend more than a few minutes on it. HIH is SM but not the same, there’s no psychological control or algorithms going on here
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 7:44:17 GMT -6
I get notifications from tapatalk so I definitely think of this as SM but its not curated and algorithm as much as FB. I get a tapatalk notification and I have to check it. DH says get off your phone and I'm on HIH. I am strongly connected to the community here. It's the community I crave. I would really suggest turning off the notifications so perhaps you have a bit of a more organic experience with when to check in here. The attachment you are describing isn't necessarily one others might classify as healthy, and it's a bit more interesting considering how your presence around here is generally received. You fight with a lot of people pretty regularly, so this dynamic you are describing where you obsessively tune in and interact is sort of alarming, tbh. Hi, thanks for caring. I'm very addicted to the community since I don't have it in real life. This doesn't affect my day to day and if I'm enjoying family time my phone gets put up. I appreciate the recommendation though. I have taken breaks from here before and I definitely will if I feel I'm having issues and it's affecting my day to day life.
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emma
Ruby
Posts: 18,809 Likes: 86,446
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Post by emma on Sept 20, 2020 7:50:00 GMT -6
Actually I’m having a revision of thought on this place. I think maybe it depends on what platform you use to interact with it and your notification settings. If you have all notifications on in Tapatalk I can see it becoming an issue because you are getting that constant messaging to check in, scroll more, click the terrible targeted adds. I forget that since I have almost all notifications turned off and use web
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Tlex
Ruby
Posts: 22,759 Likes: 154,991
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Post by Tlex on Sept 20, 2020 7:52:41 GMT -6
I am frankly blown away that anyone gets tapatalk notifications in a meaningful way.
I get them about 3x a year, all in one massive go. Otherwise they don’t work. Refreshing manually for who replied to me works about 50/50, maybe less. I’m on the free version if that matters.
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emma
Ruby
Posts: 18,809 Likes: 86,446
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Post by emma on Sept 20, 2020 7:54:23 GMT -6
Hearing them say we users are not the customers, we’re the commodity really hit home. Like deep down I knew that but to hear a former exec say it out loud really made me sit up and pay attention.
I’m also very concerned about the future with DS and social. He doesn’t really get access to anything other than TV right now because i am worried about the addictivness of interactive apps but at some point he’ll want a device and want more.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 7:54:26 GMT -6
I am frankly blown away that anyone gets tapatalk notifications in a meaningful way. I get them about 3x a year, all in one massive go. Otherwise they don’t work. Refreshing manually for who replied to me works about 50/50, maybe less. I’m on the free version if that matters. I'm getting them regularly and immediately. Sometimes they don't work but usually they do. I only have tapatalk actually so I can upload pictures. Thats why I downloaded it originally.
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Post by cargem12 on Sept 20, 2020 8:00:33 GMT -6
We watched this weekend. As a parent of 3 daughters, it terrifies me for them. I would love to say they will never be allowed to have social media, but how will that work when all of their friends do? I feel for myself, it would have been terrible if social media were a thing when I was in middle school/ high school. The “check mate on humanity” line gave me chills.
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,187 Likes: 219,239
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Post by jaygee on Sept 20, 2020 8:04:29 GMT -6
I’m feeling so strongly that I don’t want my kids anywhere near social media until high school, earliest. But my oldest is in grade 1 so I’m obviously unqualified to say how I’ll really handle things. Hearing all those people who work for FB/Twitter say it’s an absolute “no” in their home was powerful. I felt the same about hearing them say no. Wasn’t it Steve Jobs who wouldn’t let his kids have phones? Also the one guy who said he spent all day creating an environment to suck people in (Pinterest I think?) and then couldn’t get away from it at home. Almost every tech leader in Silicon Valley had said something to this effect in interviews. “Do you let your kids use your product/app?” “Hell no”. It’s really telling.
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Bookshelves
Emerald
Generally at a 2
Posts: 11,511 Likes: 104,047
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Post by Bookshelves on Sept 20, 2020 8:09:12 GMT -6
I recently deactivated my Facebook, although I have told myself I’ll reevaluate after the election. (I didn’t delete it.) It was a decision made more for reasons of personal engagement than anything presented in the documentary, but those reasons did factor into it. (I haven’t watched yet, but am familiar enough with the synopsis.)
I do worry about losing personal connections via social media. There’s an argument that if they’re too tenuous to survive deleting social media, then you weren’t really connected in the first place. I have learned that my sentimentality extends to friendships. I know that’s something not everyone here feels, and that’s okay. For me, even though I may not be close to my college roommate, would not seek her out for social interaction otherwise, I like seeing her boys grow. Would my life go on without it? Sure. But it brings me joy. Also, FOMO.
At the expense of my brain being constantly manipulated and my data exploited? I know I need to take a hard look.
It has been alarming, terrifying even, to see people whom I’ve known IRL, in many cases my entire life, as otherwise rational and lovely people, suddenly spouting conspiracy theories. Raving about “scamdemic,” etc. Social media clearly was the man conduit of that change, and that gives me pause, for sure.
I haven’t had my coffee yet so that was rambling, sorry.
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,187 Likes: 219,239
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Post by jaygee on Sept 20, 2020 8:11:40 GMT -6
I watched it this week and wanted to talk about it. It solidified some thoughts I had or I guess I should say expanded once some thoughts I had. Like I know the problem with everyone living in an echo chamber on SM was bad, but I didn’t realize how calculated it was and how it will just get worse. I’m very concerned about deep fake videos that have really ramped up. It comes down to if you can’t believe what you can see with your own eyes, yikes, what do you have?
I am one degree separated from some of the people in the documentary so I did find them credible. I read a couple of articles after about how the documentary was inaccurate, etc just to get some perspective and I didn’t find the arguments as compelling as the documentary.
It has me thinking. Both about my own social media use and future use by my kid.
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,187 Likes: 219,239
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Post by jaygee on Sept 20, 2020 8:14:02 GMT -6
The guy from Pinterest is now the CEO of moment. He may have even created it, I’m not sure. Anyways, I highly recommend that app. I used it very successfully to help my phone addiction last summer. It all went out the window with COVID so I’m planning on doing the 7 day boot camp again. I used the free version of the app only. Definitely recommend it if it’s something you want to change in your life.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 8:15:14 GMT -6
The guy from Pinterest is now the CEO of moment. He may have even created it, I’m not sure. Anyways, I highly recommend that app. I used it very successfully to help my phone addiction last summer. It all went out the window with COVID so I’m planning on doing the 7 day boot camp again. I used the free version of the app only. Definitely recommend it if it’s something you want to change in your life. Can you elaborate on this? I'm interested
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
Posts: 52,182 Likes: 296,671
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Post by McBenny on Sept 20, 2020 8:15:43 GMT -6
This place and message boards are social media.
The film showed me nothing new. I believe I did try to point out on TCF that we were the product. Some said I don't see it. Others said I don't care I want to post with my friends. 🤷🏻♀️
In conclusion, the TV board is very active and I thought we were well passed anyone not venturing to other boards. Jesus it's been a decade. Any who 🙄
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,187 Likes: 219,239
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Post by jaygee on Sept 20, 2020 8:22:10 GMT -6
The guy from Pinterest is now the CEO of moment. He may have even created it, I’m not sure. Anyways, I highly recommend that app. I used it very successfully to help my phone addiction last summer. It all went out the window with COVID so I’m planning on doing the 7 day boot camp again. I used the free version of the app only. Definitely recommend it if it’s something you want to change in your life. Can you elaborate on this? I'm interested So, I just opened the app because I haven’t touched it in 6 months. Yikes. It looks like they revamped it a little. But the boot camp basically gives you different challenges each day and the whole idea is by just trusting the process you will feel better and just stick with it. The tasks are things like turn off your notifications. Move your most used apps to folders to make them harder to get to (you have to be sure you want to open it). Put your phone in a drawer when you’re working. There is one whole day you are not supposed to use your phone for more than like 10 minutes or something. The app does have a tracking component - it tracks your total time and if you participate in this part, it tracks where you are spending your time. I recommend it. It’s eye opening for sure.
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
Posts: 52,182 Likes: 296,671
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Post by McBenny on Sept 20, 2020 8:25:15 GMT -6
I also have said in the past that I don't get the whole I don't want to get on hut I get on thing. I never have. Maybe it's because I remember life without cell phones and social media. I don't know? I don't have to delete accounts not to go somewhere, I just don't.
I also question the "concern" in the documentary and the timing. Social media has been used to call put long standing issues like police brutality. I can use it to put together a walk, a boycott, a protest. I can reach people like never before.
We just found witnesses to a murder in social media who claimed police didn't take their statement. Public opinion did. Public opinion shined the light on a murder that could have gotten swept under the rug.
Now while some are in quarantine (albeit most people have quit) and this is their way of staying connected to those they choose to, you're concerned.
They could have stayed more focused on how social media is used by the machine etc but they didn't. They made it an user issue and they could have laid the issue at the feet of where it belongs. That reads an agenda to me. 🤷🏻♀️
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,187 Likes: 219,239
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Post by jaygee on Sept 20, 2020 8:30:07 GMT -6
I’m stealing this from the politics board but this troll spotting quiz was eye opening. sctiger posted this: There is a group at Clemson working to educate people in spotting fake accounts online. It's really fascinating to see how troll accounts work. They are really clever. I found it difficult to identify some of the troll accounts. More info here: spotthetroll.org/start?fbclid=IwAR1n1mH7GRSqZVIPQsnTkICDXEbB4oOB5AEn89vYBwaNYF3D1jsfhtXQ7os
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
Posts: 52,182 Likes: 296,671
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Post by McBenny on Sept 20, 2020 8:30:21 GMT -6
This is fascinating, I will have to go watch the documentary. (Before Covid) I randomly stumbled on an article and some research about how people are reporting to be more lonely than ever despite our constant internet connections. It was really interesting, I will see if I can find it. this is a whole other topic but there is this whole thing about how those that were raised with and always had phones are the most connected but have never fostered true meaningful relationships. So when they are going through something they don't have a support system and feel alone. They don't now how to talk to others on a meaningful level. Also if and when something happens to them they take it harder cause they only know good pics in other people's lives. This is also the argument for this group being the most medicated of all time. It's a whole long things and argument this one guy brought up. You want to call BS but then think oh wow. The latch key kids are more resilient and know how to look to self to problem solve while these kids had attachment parenting will feel why isn't anyone helping me? Again it was beyond interesting to listen to.
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,187 Likes: 219,239
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Post by jaygee on Sept 20, 2020 8:35:14 GMT -6
McBenny I agree with your points around positive usage of social media. I notified in the section about it being used to spark negative political change in countries they didn’t mention when it was used to bring attention to situations that were largely unnoticed before (I.e. the Arab spring). Also, the fact that they left it with such an unsatisfying response to what do we do was frustrating to me. It was all individual actions. And I think the onus should be on the companies. That’s why I get so frustrated when the leaders of tech companies get hauled in front of congress and grilled by these old farts who have no idea what they are talking about. Zuck and his pals just have to smile and give little actual information and then we go back to what we have. Very ineffective oversight.
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Post by babybean on Sept 20, 2020 8:35:53 GMT -6
I haven’t watched this yet but will. MH is very anti-social media and only got a cell phone 7 years ago when he started his business so he’ll love hearing about this doc lol. I’m the opposite and am on my phone way too much and am trying to break the habit of it all for a variety of reasons. SS got an IG this year and hasn’t posted anything yet, but remains a consumer. He still isn’t obsessed with it in the slightest and I’m hoping it stays that way. The LO’s won’t have access to any until they’re teenagers as well.
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,187 Likes: 219,239
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Post by jaygee on Sept 20, 2020 8:39:15 GMT -6
I do have to say though that I’ve learned so much from social media and it does allow me to diversify the viewpoints I get to read and see in a way that would be difficult without it. That’s kind of the conundrum I feel. How to isolate the good and minimize the bad.
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
Posts: 52,182 Likes: 296,671
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Post by McBenny on Sept 20, 2020 8:42:47 GMT -6
For us, we have found that we choose to remove the taboo of things and go from there.
My DS had a phone already until it broke. He's on Tik Tok and talks to friends online now. We never made a big deal about it and there's no addictive behavior around it. Same with gaming and TV and streaming. We never made it a huge thing and they've never acted like omg about it. They have tvs in their rooms and always have.
DD has a phone. She's on IG and posts nothing. She's on Tik Tok as well. She was on snapchat years ago and still is but For her group it's old and so not a huge deal. She's had a iPhone since 3rd grade. Again it's never been treated as a huge taboo thing so there has never been addictive behavior around it. Some of her friends who just got phones in high school text too much according to her and try to face time too much. 🤷🏻♀️
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
Posts: 52,182 Likes: 296,671
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Post by McBenny on Sept 20, 2020 8:45:29 GMT -6
go. To YouTube and search Simon Sinek. His talk was about the workplace but so much rang true.
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Post by babybean on Sept 20, 2020 8:47:49 GMT -6
I do have to say though that I’ve learned so much from social media and it does allow me to diversify the viewpoints I get to read and see in a way that would be difficult without it. That’s kind of the conundrum I feel. How to isolate the good and minimize the bad. I’ve curated my social media to be what I need it to be so I feel this too. It’s a good space most of the time and I’ve learned a lot and made connections i wouldn’t have otherwise. The time suck of it all is mind blowing to me though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 8:49:16 GMT -6
This is fascinating, I will have to go watch the documentary. (Before Covid) I randomly stumbled on an article and some research about how people are reporting to be more lonely than ever despite our constant internet connections. It was really interesting, I will see if I can find it. this is a whole other topic but there is this whole thing about how those that were raised with and always had phones are the most connected but have never fostered true meaningful relationships. So when they are going through something they don't have a support system and feel alone. They don't now how to talk to others on a meaningful level. Also if and when something happens to them they take it harder cause they only know good pics in other people's lives. This is also the argument for this group being the most medicated of all time. It's a whole long things and argument this one guy brought up. You want to call BS but then think oh wow. The latch key kids are more resilient and know how to look to self to problem solve while these kids had attachment parenting will feel why isn't anyone helping me? Again it was beyond interesting to listen to. I will say I mostly grew up with SM. It came around when I was a preteen/teen which is interesting because I don't feel like I fit with older or younger millennials even. I feel my community is weird because I do have real life friends but I don't really talk to them about what I do here. I share day to day concerns and triumphs that I don't talk to friends about. I can't say I feel my life is lonely (I'm ignoring the covid situation with this post) but I do rely on the online community. I had a super close friend at my old job and we still talk but its not the same. That makes me sad and I really crave that type if friendship again.
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rvasc
Emerald
Posts: 14,310 Likes: 82,554
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Post by rvasc on Sept 20, 2020 8:57:46 GMT -6
I don’t have any social media apps on my phone anymore. I only use them on the computer or iPad, and I really don’t have time for that. I deleted Facebook from my iPad on Friday after RBG died.
My dad has the entire Facebook persona who is not the person I know at all, and it really weirds me out. I told him I unfollowed him because I don’t want to see it.
I might delete everyone on Facebook except church members. I dunno.
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rvasc
Emerald
Posts: 14,310 Likes: 82,554
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Post by rvasc on Sept 20, 2020 9:00:07 GMT -6
I count the board as social media but not in quite the same way as Facebook. First of all, I choose whose posts to read and there aren’t algorithms to play games with my brain.
We are definitely the product, though.
I’m going to make H watch the documentary with me, but I know he will then just make a federal case about my usage because he has no social media anymore.
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McBenny
Unicorn
#sickomode
Posts: 52,182 Likes: 296,671
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Post by McBenny on Sept 20, 2020 9:06:08 GMT -6
I also literally just woke up so read me with a huge grain of salt.
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Post by goldenbird on Sept 20, 2020 9:08:45 GMT -6
I'll have to watch the documentary. I misunderstood what this thread was about.
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jorkzy
Emerald
Posts: 13,741 Likes: 73,217
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Post by jorkzy on Sept 20, 2020 9:14:41 GMT -6
I haven’t seen the documentary and generally steer clear of docs because they’re generally such a biased viewpoint but I might watch this one. I consider this place a form of social connection but not as concerning as how FB/IG curates what we see.
I’m rarely on FB because it’s getting to be a lot of baby boomers sharing memes (hi dad), but I’m on IG most days. Not so much my personal acct but my side business account focuses on social media marketing. It’s interesting how the algorithm can really impact how many people see my content.
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