Ls2012
Amethyst
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Post by Ls2012 on Jan 25, 2020 8:55:04 GMT -6
I've been getting more and more involved with my county's democratic party office and it's been really interesting to see and hear from the black community as the field narrows. Kamala had a large majority of support here. Then Castro, then Booker. Now, there's a pretty stark divide between older generation black voters (50+) and younger generation (45 and younger). Older generation supports Biden, younger generation supports Warren. Interestingly enough, given our proximity to South Bend, Buttigieg has had almost no support. I haven't seen hardly any support for Bernie, either, and those few were men.
When speaking with a group at one of our meetings a couple weeks ago, I was listening to the two sides kind of battling it out over the two candidates. What I heard was a lot of what's been said here: Biden's support is largely because of Obama and they know what they get with him. Warren is more unknown, but her positions on childcare and the environment really resonate, as well as taxing the wealthy. They've both said/ done racially insensitive/ stupid things. Biden continues to do so. Warren, not so much. Is that a plus for Biden because, again, you know what you're getting? Has Warren really learned and listened, or is she just better at hiding it?
I think the bigger question is going to be where the voting push will come from for democrats. Will it come from the older generations that reliably vote every election, or will the younger generation come out in force as they did on 2018?
Idk, these are the thoughts floating around in my head right now.
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Post by coconutbacon on Jan 25, 2020 9:02:47 GMT -6
greykitty though to be fair to punker1212, she was surprised by progressives considering Biden, not moderates like yourself. I don't think anyone is surprised moderates would consider punker1212, so as a "radical leftist" (I was recently called this when i told them who I supported in the last Portuguese election, lol), the biggest reason I have even considered Biden is because I have also repeatedly stated that I also believe it is important to listen to voters of color. White people gave this country Trump. Whether it was you or your crazy gun-toting uncle or your otherwise lovely and kindhearted mom- white people did that. Voters of color have repeatedly been the reason we've been saved from candidates like Roy Moore. We vote in so many terrible candidates and then the brunt of those decisions are carried by BIPOC. Many BIPOC voters (though i do recognize not all- no voting bloc is a monolith) have indicated that Biden is their choice because they believe he is the only front runner candidate that lots of white people will vote for, and thus can beat Trump. Because beating Trump is life or death for so many BIPOC. From a policy perspective I am much more on Bernie's team. But I also recognize that we don't choose candidates based *just* on policies. You got Bloomberg as your number 2 on that survey, but you recognize that even though you may agree with him on lots of policies he is a shit candidate. I agree with Steyer on lots of stuff, which would be great at a cocktail party, but not as my candidate. So I am trying to weigh all of these factors when considering my vote, primary and general. What I think is interesting regarding The BPOC vote specifically, is that while Biden is the number one, when one looks closer at the demographics, Biden is number one for the older (and also more financially stable) in the larger BPOC demographic. The “listen to black voters/ POC” argument could then also be made for Sanders if one looks at the younger, and less financially stable part of this demographic, where he has a sizable following. I say this as a Warren supporter, who has a lot of work to do no matter how one looks at the numbers. (As do all the remaining candidates.)
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 25, 2020 9:45:55 GMT -6
greykitty though to be fair to punker1212, she was surprised by progressives considering Biden, not moderates like yourself. I don't think anyone is surprised moderates would consider punker1212, so as a "radical leftist" (I was recently called this when i told them who I supported in the last Portuguese election, lol), the biggest reason I have even considered Biden is because I have also repeatedly stated that I also believe it is important to listen to voters of color. White people gave this country Trump. Whether it was you or your crazy gun-toting uncle or your otherwise lovely and kindhearted mom- white people did that. Voters of color have repeatedly been the reason we've been saved from candidates like Roy Moore. We vote in so many terrible candidates and then the brunt of those decisions are carried by BIPOC. Many BIPOC voters (though i do recognize not all- no voting bloc is a monolith) have indicated that Biden is their choice because they believe he is the only front runner candidate that lots of white people will vote for, and thus can beat Trump. Because beating Trump is life or death for so many BIPOC. From a policy perspective I am much more on Bernie's team. But I also recognize that we don't choose candidates based *just* on policies. You got Bloomberg as your number 2 on that survey, but you recognize that even though you may agree with him on lots of policies he is a shit candidate. I agree with Steyer on lots of stuff, which would be great at a cocktail party, but not as my candidate. So I am trying to weigh all of these factors when considering my vote, primary and general. This. I consider myself a progressive dem (although i fee voted off that island by the justice Dems and what not lol) and I’m planning to primary vote for Biden because I am committed to voting like a Black woman. I believe Biden has the majority of the support of that voting block and their interests/priorities are my interests/priorities. Why does he have so much Black voter support? I think that’s a complicated answer and at the end of the day it’s going to be somewhat unsatisfying. Some of it is going to be - he’s the kind of problematic that is easier to swallow. Stick with the devil you know kind of stuff. It’s also not really for me as a white woman to say or try to unpack. But when I read and listen I hear Black woman raising more concerns about the other top candidates than Biden so I am going with that. The things he has said, especially recently, have shown a huge hole in his understanding of racism and ongoing racial injustice in this country. It’s sad that one could work so closely with the first Black president and not seem to have a more in depth command of what the issues are. But I guess I also feel like it’s almost impossible to come across a white man of his demographic that does. Which is part of why I just didn’t want an old white person as our nominee. Even the most woke white person is never going to be as good on these issues as someone who has lived the experience of being a person of color in America. And that’s not to say that white people can’t be in power again but until we’ve dealt with the systematic issues plaguing our country and balanced out the power dynamic that exists as every level of government, I think we need more diversity. I’ll note that I’m listening to Talking to Strangers by Malcom Gladwell and it has me all kinds of turned around because our basic human abilities to interpret when people are lying to us suck. So in the past I would have said I trust Biden more than the others, I’m shooketh on trust of strangers now. Lol.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 25, 2020 10:02:05 GMT -6
I do think the age divide in Black voter support is interesting. Will be fascinating to see what happens when votes get cast.
I guess I should clarify that my vote like a Black voter stance is really a “vote like an older* Black lady” vibe.
*because I’m an old.
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Post by blurnette989 on Jan 25, 2020 10:14:17 GMT -6
I do think the age divide in Black voter support is interesting. Will be fascinating to see what happens when votes get cast. I guess I should clarify that my vote like a Black voter stance is really a “vote like an older* Black lady” vibe. *because I’m an old. It must be my youthful glow pushing me towards Warren then.😜😅 #vintagemillenial
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starbuck
Emerald
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Post by starbuck on Jan 25, 2020 12:11:06 GMT -6
I definitely don't like Biden. He is problematic AF as is Bernie. I am more vocal about Bernie because on top of his racist/sexist comments, I also disagree with a lot of his positions. And as we know he's kind of an ass so all around I do not enjoy him.
Biden and I have some policy overlap. But that's about all he has going for him, for me.
Trust I def recognize that he and Biden have a lot of old white man shit in common and I wish they'd both go away.
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Ls2012
Amethyst
Posts: 7,377 Likes: 32,705
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Post by Ls2012 on Jan 25, 2020 13:21:25 GMT -6
Saw this yesterday. Seems relevant to the current discussion: Man, I keep coming back to this and it's really messing with me. Looking at the demographics that garner the majority of support for Bernie and Yang, I have this horrible sinking feeling that white men are really going to fuck this up for us.
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jaygee
Diamond
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Post by jaygee on Jan 25, 2020 13:33:18 GMT -6
Saw this yesterday. Seems relevant to the current discussion: Man, I keep coming back to this and it's really messing with me. Looking at the demographics that garner the majority of support for Bernie and Yang, I have this horrible sinking feeling that white men are really going to fuck this up for us. Don’t forget the white women that are already voting for T though. 😡
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Ls2012
Amethyst
Posts: 7,377 Likes: 32,705
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Post by Ls2012 on Jan 25, 2020 13:37:20 GMT -6
Man, I keep coming back to this and it's really messing with me. Looking at the demographics that garner the majority of support for Bernie and Yang, I have this horrible sinking feeling that white men are really going to fuck this up for us. Don’t forget the white women that are already voting for T though. 😡 I know. I'm only speaking to the presumed democrat voting population. So my previous statement should be "white democratic men" are going to fuck this up for us. Those white women that voted for T aren't coming back. In fact, I've written off everyone who voted for T and rely on none of them crossing lines to vote D.
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milano
Emerald
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Post by milano on Jan 25, 2020 16:31:38 GMT -6
jaygee I love malcom gladwell and have that book ready to read on vacation next week.
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jaygee
Diamond
Posts: 28,912 Likes: 225,986
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Post by jaygee on Jan 25, 2020 18:17:08 GMT -6
jaygee I love malcom gladwell and have that book ready to read on vacation next week. I’ll warn you that it’s a little heavy. It’s interesting but in order to make his point he talks about a lot of difficult cases and subjects. But I’m definitely learning a lot about human behavior.
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Post by coconutbacon on Jan 25, 2020 18:34:53 GMT -6
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,768 Likes: 94,580
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 25, 2020 18:46:11 GMT -6
I just got the text from her campaign saying that and of course asking me to chip in 15 bucks
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Post by coconutbacon on Jan 25, 2020 19:15:27 GMT -6
I just got the text from her campaign saying that and of course asking me to chip in 15 bucks Lol. I’m amazed I haven’t gotten that text yet. ETA: They asked me for $2 about 3 minutes after I posted that.
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milano
Emerald
Posts: 10,943 Likes: 37,261
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Post by milano on Jan 25, 2020 19:24:34 GMT -6
jaygee I love malcom gladwell and have that book ready to read on vacation next week. I’ll warn you that it’s a little heavy. It’s interesting but in order to make his point he talks about a lot of difficult cases and subjects. But I’m definitely learning a lot about human behavior. I appreciate the heads up on that. MH and I have about 8 hrs of driving to do and were debating on listening to that or Stable Genius. I was worried the latter would just make me angry. Maybe I'll stick with a print version of both so I can take a break if needed. I "feel" heavy things quite strongly and he doesn't so might be best if we go at it at our own paces.
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Post by punker1212 on Jan 25, 2020 19:58:51 GMT -6
Finally here after a long day and too tired to contribute much. I read somewhere to think of those who are most vulnerable and vote for their best interests. I’m hoping I make the right choice with my vote and that it’s a contribution to leaving the planet habitable for my kids’ generation. Our hearts are all in the right places! I hope that counts for something.
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Post by punker1212 on Jan 25, 2020 21:14:15 GMT -6
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Post by daffodilsandcoffee on Jan 26, 2020 10:58:53 GMT -6
It’s interesting to lurk this thread. I feel like I have nothing to add, because my primary isn’t until May. Only once have I gotten to vote in a primary that actually mattered (Obama v Hillary). In 2016 the race was still going, but I chose to hold my nose and vote in the republican primary instead because I so desperately did not want Mike Braun to win the nomination for US Senate. (Spoiler it didn’t work). Our primaries are open; you just tell them which ballot to give you when you go. Often our more local races end up unopposed because no democrat even tries to run. So voting in the R primary is often the only way to get my voice heard. I end up researching everyone and voting for the person who seems like the least likely to fuck things up.
In November, I will be voting blue no matter who.
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Post by greykitty on Jan 26, 2020 11:50:55 GMT -6
My county too often has only one party fielding candidates in a lot of race, although that's been changing over the last 15 years or so. My primary is March 17, although early voting starts February 6. We tag team some local elections onto the primaries in non-presidential election years, just to get anyone out to vote.
Interesting on my nextdoor someone was surprised to see candidate signs being put up - they had no clue a primary was upcoming. I think I often forget that for every person who is somewhat interested in politics, there are probably about 40 more who don't think about it much. And, sad to say, even moreso at the local level (until taxes go up!). We really need better civics education (well, a better educational system all around) IMO.
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Post by PandaWatch on Jan 26, 2020 11:52:38 GMT -6
Man, I miss living in a Super Tuesday state. I voted on Super Tuesday through the 2008 election. This year my primary is at the end of April. Womp, womp.
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Post by greykitty on Jan 26, 2020 11:53:46 GMT -6
byjove, meant to say I think about you fairly often, and hope that everything is going well with your eye.
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athn64
Ruby
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Post by athn64 on Jan 26, 2020 12:18:39 GMT -6
My county too often has only one party fielding candidates in a lot of race, although that's been changing over the last 15 years or so. My primary is March 17, although early voting starts February 6. We tag team some local elections onto the primaries in non-presidential election years, just to get anyone out to vote. Interesting on my nextdoor someone was surprised to see candidate signs being put up - they had no clue a primary was upcoming. I think I often forget that for every person who is somewhat interested in politics, there are probably about 40 more who don't think about it much. And, sad to say, even moreso at the local level (until taxes go up!). We really need better civics education (well, a better educational system all around) IMO. I'm not that far from you and it's similar here. My brother actually forgot to vote last year because he didn't realize it was election day.
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Post by punker1212 on Jan 26, 2020 12:59:08 GMT -6
It’s interesting to lurk this thread. I feel like I have nothing to add, because my primary isn’t until May. Only once have I gotten to vote in a primary that actually mattered (Obama v Hillary). In 2016 the race was still going, but I chose to hold my nose and vote in the republican primary instead because I so desperately did not want Mike Braun to win the nomination for US Senate. (Spoiler it didn’t work). Our primaries are open; you just tell them which ballot to give you when you go. Often our more local races end up unopposed because no democrat even tries to run. So voting in the R primary is often the only way to get my voice heard. I end up researching everyone and voting for the person who seems like the least likely to fuck things up. In November, I will be voting blue no matter who. Voting R is an interesting strategy And one my SIL took also. It’s interesting. Now that I’m in a red area I might have to think about that some more.
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byjove
Ruby
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Post by byjove on Jan 26, 2020 14:04:14 GMT -6
greykitty ❤️❤️❤️thank you. My eye is doing ok! Cataract seems stable so it’s watch and wait for now.
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AmyG
Ruby
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Post by AmyG on Jan 26, 2020 15:08:41 GMT -6
It’s interesting to lurk this thread. I feel like I have nothing to add, because my primary isn’t until May. Only once have I gotten to vote in a primary that actually mattered (Obama v Hillary). In 2016 the race was still going, but I chose to hold my nose and vote in the republican primary instead because I so desperately did not want Mike Braun to win the nomination for US Senate. (Spoiler it didn’t work). Our primaries are open; you just tell them which ballot to give you when you go. Often our more local races end up unopposed because no democrat even tries to run. So voting in the R primary is often the only way to get my voice heard. I end up researching everyone and voting for the person who seems like the least likely to fuck things up. In November, I will be voting blue no matter who. Voting R is an interesting strategy And one my SIL took also. It’s interesting. Now that I’m in a red area I might have to think about that some more. problem is right now R vote for president you only have trump as the option on primary or general election. So in a normal year, where there's more than one R running, voting the most sane R in the primary is the better option, and then voting Democrat in the general. That's what I've done in AZ long time ago, voting the most normal R in the primary as a registered Republican and then voting democrat in the general. But got tired of the whole thing and registered democrat so I can vote for normal people in the primary. We have closed primary so I only get to vote for my registered party in the primary.
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cnf
Ruby
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Post by cnf on Jan 26, 2020 17:18:36 GMT -6
Is Bill Weld still running against Trump?
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jkjacq
Ruby
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 26, 2020 21:41:26 GMT -6
I’m watching the weekly on fx. I think it’s last weeks because it’s the interview prior to the nyt endorsement
Bern just said that 40-45 percent of people feel that both they parties have failed them. Asked so that explains the appeal of racism? B yes
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Post by punker1212 on Jan 26, 2020 21:49:51 GMT -6
I’m watching the weekly on fx. I think it’s last weeks because it’s the interview prior to the nyt endorsement Bern just said that 40-45 percent of people feel that both they parties have failed them. Asked so that explains the appeal of racism? B yes Vom.
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jkjacq
Ruby
Posts: 21,768 Likes: 94,580
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Post by jkjacq on Jan 26, 2020 21:56:28 GMT -6
I know a lot of this is out there in clips but this is a good episode to watch.
Also yang doesn’t think any of his opponents understand the internet Plus if he doesn’t have an adhd dx in his history I would be shocked.
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roloma
Sapphire
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Post by roloma on Jan 28, 2020 15:35:34 GMT -6
Probably relevant...my county dems group just posted on FB that since 12/31/19 871 new Democrats have been registered in our county and 273 of them used to be Republicans.
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